ECT Do those who believe MAD believe the Apostle Paul was a liar ?

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Banned
Just look at what kind of spirit the madists have. I fight not to have that spirit...they insult, belittle, call people drunks, retards, etc.

How about just talk about the scriptures without all your personal insults?

Within MAD is one of my most intimate theological understandings about a particular people and land that were set apart as the "Woman" that would "Give Birth" to "The Child of Promise".

Perhaps they are frustrated at people trampling those people and the Grace that God the Son purchased with His very BLOOD!

Hmmmmmmmm....
 

God's Truth

New member
I am guilty at times myself, but lets try to discuss our difference in scripture so the lurkers can actually watch us and not say look at those supposed Christians who are no different than anyone else so I am OK.

Have a blessed day STP.

By the way, it is not about the lurkers, it is about God and what He thinks of us.

May we always only try to please Him.

I think you would agree.
 

God's Truth

New member
Within MAD is one of my most intimate theological understandings about a particular people and land that were set apart as the "Woman" that would "Give Birth" to "The Child of Promise".

Perhaps they are frustrated at people trampling those people and the Grace that God the Son purchased with His very BLOOD!

Hmmmmmmmm....

Don't make excuses for doing evil. That spirit is not of God.

Would you like to talk about the Bride?
 

dodge

New member
You are wrong this time, dodge. You are nothing like them, so far anyway that I can see.

You also show great restraint.

If it gets to the point that no one listens to anyone else because they are so busy making a point are we accomplishing anything ?

Scripture says to be gentle with those opposing themselves does it not ? We believe they are opposing themselves while they believe we are opposing ourselves. Could it not be they believe sincerely that they are helping us while we believe sincerely we are helping them. I do not want to cause ANYONE to stumble from the truth. The end result for both I believe is to bring others closer to living like Jesus wants us ALL to live , which becomes impossible if we don't listen, pray, ask God and stand firm when we are right and change when we are wrong.

Have a blessed day.
 

God's Truth

New member
Yep.... straight-up churchianity.

Where do you all get your learnings from?

You guys insult and say the same things, and are allowed to say it here to others and others are not allowed to do it, even though we wouldn't because it is against God.

How did you all find each other?
 

God's Truth

New member
They were correct to believe prophecy concerning Messiah because that's what GOD said.
They would have been correct also concerning Messiah's death but they missed that one. In prophecy, that fact is more cryptic than the blatant prophecies concerning Messiah's reign from David's throne.

John the Baptist's father Zechariah prophesied by the Holy Spirit this concerning the Lord Jesus:

Luk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
Luk 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
Luk 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Luk 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Luk 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
Luk 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
Luk 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
Luk 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
Luk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.



Was the Holy Spirit wrong concerning what the Lord Jesus would do?

No, not quite.

Isaiah taught that it would happen.

Jesus Christ himself taught that it would happen.

Just because the disciples were confused at times, it does NOT MEAN Jesus did not teach it.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Banned
Where do you all get your learnings from?

You guys insult and say the same things, and are allowed to say it here to others and others are not allowed to do it, even though we wouldn't because it is against God.

How did you all find yourselves?

???

I didn't find myself until I was lost in His Grace! When I was lost in Myself, I didn't know myself!
 

dodge

New member
By the way, it is not about the lurkers, it is about God and what He thinks of us.

May we always only try to please Him.

I think you would agree.

It is not just about the lurkers I agree it is about US all of US. We have scripture explicitly telling us how we are supposed to witness to the TRUTH.

I would not ask anyone to go against what God says is truth.
 

God's Truth

New member
GOD's universal kingdom is overall and has never lapsed.
The Davidic Kingdom promised to Israel's Messiah is on hold, awaiting Israel's repentance.
The spiritual kingdom into which believers have been translated is on going in heaven.

If the Jews, Gentiles, Greeks, ANYONE EVER, does NOT REPENT, they will NOT SEE THE KINGDOM. Period.
 

God's Truth

New member
GOD's universal kingdom is overall and has never lapsed.
The Davidic Kingdom promised to Israel's Messiah is on hold, awaiting Israel's repentance.
The spiritual kingdom into which believers have been translated is on going in heaven.

David's kingdom was a kingdom over Israel.

Jesus is over Israel now, and over EVERY NAME AND principality.
 

God's Truth

New member
It is not just about the lurkers I agree it is about US all of US. We have scripture explicitly telling us how we are supposed to witness to the TRUTH.

I would not ask anyone to go against what God says is truth.

I don't understand that last sentence.
 

dodge

New member
I don't understand that last sentence.

Even though I disagree with the MAD belief some of these people believe it is the truth of God. So if someone asked you to compromise what you believe to be the truth of God I am sure you would not compromise your beliefs. That is why we discuss and compare scripture is it not ?

The standard of truth is not ours or theirs it is God's.

For example: I know that Jesus' teachings is for the body of Christ, and yet one verse is used basically to not believe His words are for us while many many of Jesus' teachings are universal as evidenced by "world" and "whosoever" in John 3:16.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
David's kingdom was a kingdom over Israel.

Yep.


Jesus is over Israel now,

Nope.
You had 'Israel' defined Biblically in your first statement.
Now you've switched and defined 'Israel' unbiblically.

and over EVERY NAME AND principality.

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father in the Father's throne.
To be exalted to that position, there is no way that Christ could not be over every name and principality.

Nevertheless, Christ has not actualized His rule over a subjected nation of Israel from the throne of David nor over planet earth, which He is destined to do, and which He instructed His disciples to pray for.

Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Christ is now sitting at GOD's right hand....henceforth expecting till...
which means it ain't all done....yet.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
 

God's Truth

New member
Yep.




Nope.
You had 'Israel' defined Biblically in your first statement.
Now you've switched and defined 'Israel' unbiblically.



Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father in the Father's throne.
To be exalted to that position, there is no way that Christ could not be over every name and principality.

Nevertheless, Christ has not actualized His rule over a subjected nation of Israel from the throne of David nor over planet earth, which He is destined to do, and which He instructed His disciples to pray for.

Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Christ is now sitting at GOD's right hand....henceforth expecting till...
which means it ain't all done....yet.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

No, Jesus is ABOVE ALL.

That is scripture.

You are arguing against the plain truth.
 

God's Truth

New member
Even though I disagree with the MAD belief some of these people believe it is the truth of God. So if someone asked you to compromise what you believe to be the truth of God I am sure you would not compromise your beliefs.

You are wrong. I gave it up for God's Truth.

That is why we discuss and compare scripture is it not ?

So you just now contradicted what you said.

The standard of truth is not ours or theirs it is God's.

I know I have God's Truth,and I prove it with scripture.

For example: I know that Jesus' teachings is for the body of Christ, and yet one verse is used basically to not believe His words are for us while many many of Jesus' teachings are universal as evidenced by "world" and "whosoever" in John 3:16.

Jesus came first for the lost sheep of Israel, and then when he was crucified, all can come to him.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
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Yep.




Nope.
You had 'Israel' defined Biblically in your first statement.
Now you've switched and defined 'Israel' unbiblically.



Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father in the Father's throne.
To be exalted to that position, there is no way that Christ could not be over every name and principality.

Nevertheless, Christ has not actualized His rule over a subjected nation of Israel from the throne of David nor over planet earth, which He is destined to do, and which He instructed His disciples to pray for.

Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Christ is now sitting at GOD's right hand....henceforth expecting till...
which means it ain't all done....yet.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

Excellent!

Which is to come.
Not yet.
Expecting.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
No the Holy Spirit was not wrong the people were wrong for not understanding and looking to all of Zechariah's prophecies.

Correct.
Therefore the Holy Spirit speaking through Zacharia confirmed that Israel would be(at some point) delivered from all who hate and oppress them and it would be accomplished through Jesus Messiah.
Nor only that, but the Holy Spirit declares that all that the prophets said since the foundation of the world would come to pass.
If one, with an open mind, considers the words of prophecy, he will find that all prophecy has not been fulfilled.....yet.


I guess they were pretty much like folks today who see what they want to see and ignore the rest.

All folks are susceptible to that malady, but not inevitably. Pride makes a huge contribution.


If my country was occupied by an army I suppose that prophecies about deliverance would have a greater meaning and relevance.

Indeed! Nevertheless, the Holy Spirit said it and it can't be wrong.

I don't know if the prophecies about the 1st coming of Jesus were more cryptic or if God withheld the meaning of them but they are there.

Some are cryptic and some are very plain, but the one's concerning Messiah's death are especially cryptic and we only easily see them because of our advantage in hindsight from the historical narrative recorded in the NT. Folks tend to assume that 'the gospel of the grace of GOD through the cross' is plainly laid out in the OT for all to see and understand. It's not.

Found an interesting article I thought you might appreciate.


The chapter begins with an ominous prophecy of a coming destruction that would vanquish the nation of Israel. This devastation would be a judgment from God because of the Jewish people’s rejection of Jehovah’s royal King. The description previews the Roman invasion that would culminate in A.D. 70 (cf. Matthew 22:1-7).

Out of this background comes the following prophecy.

“And I said unto them, If you think good, give me my hire; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my hire thirty pieces of silver. And Jehovah said unto me, Cast it unto the potter, the goodly price that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them unto the potter, in the house of Jehovah” (Zechariah 11:12-13).
This is a stunning text; indeed, it is a powerful example of the minute details that characterize the prophetic literature of the Bible. Zechariah, speaking on behalf of the promised Messiah, makes the following points.

Haggling Over Price
The prophecy suggests there would be a haggling of terms in connection with the betrayal of Jesus. “If you think good, give me my hire; and if not, forbear.” Matthew records Judas’ words as follows. “What are you willing to give me, and I will deliver him unto you?” (Matthew 26:15).

Luke says that the chief priests were glad and “covenanted” to give him the money, and the traitor “consented” to the deal (Luke 22:5-6). The term “covenanted” (suntithemi) signifies “to work out a mutually agreeable contract” (Danker, et al., p. 975).

Should it be asked why the negotiating jargon of Judas is represented as having been spoken by the Lord, the answer is simple. Though Judas was a willing instrument in the nefarious deed, the Son of God was totally in control ultimately. He was laying down his life willingly (John 10:17-18; cf. Galatians 1:4). Thus, he is represented figuratively as orchestrating the events.

Silver Prophesied
The prophet specified the metallic composition of the coinage by which the transaction would be made. It was neither gold nor copper, but rather, “silver” (Matthew 26:15).

The Price
The precise number of coins was prophetically declared—“thirty pieces of silver.” The amount is not incidental. Thirty pieces of silver, under the Mosaic law, was the price to be paid to remedy the damage done to a slave that had been gored by a neighbor’s ox (Exodus 21:32).

Here’s the significance. Christ went to the cross as the “servant” of God (doulos—a slave, Philippians 2:7). The Lord, in fact, was a servant “wounded” by the nails of the crucifixion brutality (cf. Isaiah 53:5). To many of the Jews, he was expendable, mere “damaged goods” in the assessment of his enemies, “rejected indeed of men, but with God elect” (1 Peter 2:4).

God Devalued
The insulting rejection of Christ (as indicated by such a paltry amount) was a reflection of the Jews’ attitude toward Jehovah himself. As the Lord said through Zechariah, “Cast it to the potter, the goodly price [strong irony] that I was prized at by them.” These words find stark fulfillment in the Savior’s warning, “he who rejects me rejects him who sent me” (Luke 10:16).

Blood Money Returned
Zechariah’s prophecy indicated that the money would be returned to the Jewish leaders, the custodians of “the house of God.” Matthew’s record reveals that Judas, in a swoon of regret, brought back the coinage to the chief priests and elders. But they would have none of it. Their superficial religiosity would not allow the temple treasury to be contaminated with blood money. How commendable was their devotion; bloody hands recoiled at “blood money”!

Cast Into God’s House
The ancient prophet indicated that in some way the silver coins were to be “cast” (thrown) into the “house of Jehovah.” Zechariah has perfectly depicted the act of the betrayer. Judas “cast down the pieces of silver into the sanctuary” (Matthew 27:5).

The term “sanctuary” (naos) denotes the sacred edifice containing the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place, in contrast to the outer courts of the temple area (see Thayer, p. 422). Since Judas would not have been allowed in the priestly area, it is likely that he approached as close as he could and then flung the money into the sacred area—as if this “gift” could be a substitute for genuine repentance! Nonetheless, prophecy fulfilled.

The End Predicted
Finally, Zechariah suggests that the ultimate destination of the “goodly price” would be to “the potter.” Matthew explains this enigmatic expression. The chief priests took the money and purchased a “potter’s field,” which would serve as a burial place for strangers. This likely was an area where clay for pottery was extracted from the earth, or perhaps a dump where broken shards finally were discarded. It most assuredly was cheap land. At the time Matthew penned his Gospel record (some twenty to thirty years after Christ’s death), the place was still known as “the field of blood” (27:8; cf. Acts 1:18-19).

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/913-zechariahs-amazing-prophecy-of-the-betrayal-of-christ

Yes, I'm familiar with all of that. Nevertheless, we see the connection easily with hindsight. It's far from plain going forward from the time these things were uttered. The Holy Spirit certainly knew the connections.....man didn't.....til after the events.
 
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