Interplanner
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A person at that time could be justified by way of anticipation of the cross, just as anyone in the pre-Christian period could.
ECT Do those who believe MAD believe the Apostle Paul was a liar ?
- Thread starter dodge
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A person at that time could be justified by way of anticipation of the cross, just as anyone in the pre-Christian period could.
Right Divider
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A cute, uninformed opinion to maintain a fairy story.
Nowhere in scripture are we told that anyone "looked forward to the cross".... NOWHERE.
That is one of the many myths of churchianity. They believed that God would deal with their sins, but nothing more.
When Peter was told that Christ would be put to death, he tried to stop it.
When Jesus told the twelve, not only did they not understand it.... it was hid from them.
Paul is the first one that preached the cross as GOOD NEWS. You will NOT find that preached in Acts 1-5 as you have been clearly shown before.
SaulToPaul 2
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Yep.... straight-up churchianity.
They were correct to believe prophecy concerning Messiah because that's what GOD said.
They would have been correct also concerning Messiah's death but they missed that one. In prophecy, that fact is more cryptic than the blatant prophecies concerning Messiah's reign from David's throne.
John the Baptist's father Zechariah prophesied by the Holy Spirit this concerning the Lord Jesus:
Luk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
Luk 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
Luk 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Luk 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Luk 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
Luk 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
Luk 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
Luk 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
Luk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
Was the Holy Spirit wrong concerning what the Lord Jesus would do?
GOD's universal kingdom is overall and has never lapsed.
The Davidic Kingdom promised to Israel's Messiah is on hold, awaiting Israel's repentance.
The spiritual kingdom into which believers have been translated is on going in heaven.
dodge
New member
No the Holy Spirit was not wrong the people were wrong for not understanding and looking to all of Zechariah's prophecies.
I guess they were pretty much like folks today who see what they want to see and ignore the rest.
If my country was occupied by an army I suppose that prophecies about deliverance would have a greater meaning and relevance.
I don't know if the prophecies about the 1st coming of Jesus were more cryptic or if God withheld the meaning of them but they are there.
Found an interesting article I thought you might appreciate.
The chapter begins with an ominous prophecy of a coming destruction that would vanquish the nation of Israel. This devastation would be a judgment from God because of the Jewish people’s rejection of Jehovah’s royal King. The description previews the Roman invasion that would culminate in A.D. 70 (cf. Matthew 22:1-7).
Out of this background comes the following prophecy.
“And I said unto them, If you think good, give me my hire; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my hire thirty pieces of silver. And Jehovah said unto me, Cast it unto the potter, the goodly price that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them unto the potter, in the house of Jehovah” (Zechariah 11:12-13).
This is a stunning text; indeed, it is a powerful example of the minute details that characterize the prophetic literature of the Bible. Zechariah, speaking on behalf of the promised Messiah, makes the following points.
Haggling Over Price
The prophecy suggests there would be a haggling of terms in connection with the betrayal of Jesus. “If you think good, give me my hire; and if not, forbear.” Matthew records Judas’ words as follows. “What are you willing to give me, and I will deliver him unto you?” (Matthew 26:15).
Luke says that the chief priests were glad and “covenanted” to give him the money, and the traitor “consented” to the deal (Luke 22:5-6). The term “covenanted” (suntithemi) signifies “to work out a mutually agreeable contract” (Danker, et al., p. 975).
Should it be asked why the negotiating jargon of Judas is represented as having been spoken by the Lord, the answer is simple. Though Judas was a willing instrument in the nefarious deed, the Son of God was totally in control ultimately. He was laying down his life willingly (John 10:17-18; cf. Galatians 1:4). Thus, he is represented figuratively as orchestrating the events.
Silver Prophesied
The prophet specified the metallic composition of the coinage by which the transaction would be made. It was neither gold nor copper, but rather, “silver” (Matthew 26:15).
The Price
The precise number of coins was prophetically declared—“thirty pieces of silver.” The amount is not incidental. Thirty pieces of silver, under the Mosaic law, was the price to be paid to remedy the damage done to a slave that had been gored by a neighbor’s ox (Exodus 21:32).
Here’s the significance. Christ went to the cross as the “servant” of God (doulos—a slave, Philippians 2:7). The Lord, in fact, was a servant “wounded” by the nails of the crucifixion brutality (cf. Isaiah 53:5). To many of the Jews, he was expendable, mere “damaged goods” in the assessment of his enemies, “rejected indeed of men, but with God elect” (1 Peter 2:4).
God Devalued
The insulting rejection of Christ (as indicated by such a paltry amount) was a reflection of the Jews’ attitude toward Jehovah himself. As the Lord said through Zechariah, “Cast it to the potter, the goodly price [strong irony] that I was prized at by them.” These words find stark fulfillment in the Savior’s warning, “he who rejects me rejects him who sent me” (Luke 10:16).
Blood Money Returned
Zechariah’s prophecy indicated that the money would be returned to the Jewish leaders, the custodians of “the house of God.” Matthew’s record reveals that Judas, in a swoon of regret, brought back the coinage to the chief priests and elders. But they would have none of it. Their superficial religiosity would not allow the temple treasury to be contaminated with blood money. How commendable was their devotion; bloody hands recoiled at “blood money”!
Cast Into God’s House
The ancient prophet indicated that in some way the silver coins were to be “cast” (thrown) into the “house of Jehovah.” Zechariah has perfectly depicted the act of the betrayer. Judas “cast down the pieces of silver into the sanctuary” (Matthew 27:5).
The term “sanctuary” (naos) denotes the sacred edifice containing the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place, in contrast to the outer courts of the temple area (see Thayer, p. 422). Since Judas would not have been allowed in the priestly area, it is likely that he approached as close as he could and then flung the money into the sacred area—as if this “gift” could be a substitute for genuine repentance! Nonetheless, prophecy fulfilled.
The End Predicted
Finally, Zechariah suggests that the ultimate destination of the “goodly price” would be to “the potter.” Matthew explains this enigmatic expression. The chief priests took the money and purchased a “potter’s field,” which would serve as a burial place for strangers. This likely was an area where clay for pottery was extracted from the earth, or perhaps a dump where broken shards finally were discarded. It most assuredly was cheap land. At the time Matthew penned his Gospel record (some twenty to thirty years after Christ’s death), the place was still known as “the field of blood” (27:8; cf. Acts 1:18-19).
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/913-zechariahs-amazing-prophecy-of-the-betrayal-of-christ
God's Truth
New member
You both sound desperate.
Danoh, others here have laughed at you and told you that you sound retarded.
How do you think opinions and insults mean anything?
That is what haters do.
Definitely not of the Spirit of God.
However, I do believe they are right about you, since you have so insulted them in the same way...with the measure you use...see the words of Jesus Christ.
God's Truth
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Don't worry about goats. No goat is going to take away the Jewish peoples sins. Jesus the Lamb has already done that and now they have to turn to him to be saved.
dodge
New member
I know every scripture I post is a myth to you. Must be hell to distort and take out of context scripture to have a belief system that goes against scripture like MAD ! Good luck with that.
dodge
New member
Where exactly is the verse that tells those that name the name of Christ to be cynical and accusatory ?
I don't know that I have ever read that verse.
God's Truth
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Okay, do you know that John the baptizer was the one to go before the Lord to prepare the way?
You are wrong.
What about what?
God's Truth
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So what about your opinions? You do not think we can say that about you too?
Stop merely insulting, as the spirit of those of your ilk do.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Interplanner has began 31 threads ridiculing us.
God's Truth
New member
Just look at what kind of spirit the madists have. I fight not to have that spirit...they insult, belittle, call people drunks, retards, etc.
How about just talk about the scriptures without all your personal insults?
How about just talk about the scriptures without all your personal insults?
God's Truth
New member
Are you kidding? He shows a lot of restraint while you all try to ridicule him...you guys with your laughing smilies and with your 'thanks' to John W. calling everyone every evil and mean thing in the book, ETC.
God's Truth
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dodge
New member
I am guilty at times myself, but lets try to discuss our difference in scripture so the lurkers can actually watch us and not say look at those supposed Christians who are no different than anyone else so I am OK.
Have a blessed day STP.
God's Truth
New member
Well said!
God's Truth
New member
You are wrong this time, dodge. You are nothing like them, so far anyway that I can see.
You also show great restraint.