Disagree but respect

[meshak]

And Jesus says "if you love Me, keep My commandments."

 

[meshak]

[ The Parable of the Good Samaritan ]

Luke 10:25-37 New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Good Samaritan

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

 

[shauna_hale]

I gave up. It was mostly the same. Their focus is their own dogma. You say you are Calvinist. You see, that's how Jesus' love messages get so tarnished by all kind of isms.

I'm a little confused as to how Christ's messages get tarnished by "isms".

One dogma of the Christian faith is the Holy Trinity. If a church is not teaching that, then there's a big problem. I guess it would be a good idea to know the correct teachings of the faith. You are allowed to disagree. You are allowed to voice your opinion/concerns/questions in a church. If they silence you, go somewhere else.

As for your comment on being Calvinist...it kinda felt like you were saying that's part of the problem to teaching God's word.

I don't believe that my Calvinistic beliefs change the message. Personally, I believe that not everyone is chosen to go to Heaven. Others don't believe that. All that is is an armenian vs calvinist view. Neither view distorts God's word. (Now, having said that, bringing up that debate to a new Christian would be a bad idea bc it would just confuse them until they've gotten a grasp on the theology behind it.)

I would question those churches who say you can lose salvation, have to do works to get into Heaven, Jesus was just a man, etc. Once you've established the basics, then you can get deeper into the theology and meaning behind different things, but absolutely NONE of the arguments between free will or predestination change the message that we are to love one another. There are a lot more examples but I chose that one since it was already mentioned.

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[shauna_hale]

Fruit of spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness and self-control.

Jesus says we know them by their fruit.

Thanks for the lesson on the good samaritan. I think you're misunderstanding what I meant. An attribute is a characteristic. Like having brown hair, or blue eyes or a bubbly personality. He could've said, you'll know them by their brown hair. Brown hair is not love, just as fruits are not love. They identify you as having the spirit, but they're not love.

The fruit of the spirit is being loving, being joyful, being peacful, having patience, being kind, doing good, faithfulness amd having self control. None of these things is love.

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[God's Truth]

First of all, how do you quote smaller parts in a reply???

To quote within a reply, one must, at the beginning of the sentence you want to reply to, put a bracket [ then the word QUOTE in all capital letters, then another ] at the end of the word QUOTE; make sure not to put any spaces.
Then at the end of the sentence you want to quote, put a [ then a / then the word QUOTE in capital letters and then another ]. I hope that helps.

I'm not saying you were wrong at all, please don't think that, and you have your reasons to disagree, absolutely. Just from where I'm reading, both of you are telling truth, but to me, it's just two different approaches.

You seem like a really nice person who is trying to see all sides.

Lol, actually, yes, I am a Calvinist. Before you roll your eyes, say "oh great" and tune me out, (jk) just hear me out.

I have been debating for many years and I know all the false teaching of the Calvinists. I hope though that you hear me out. With a kind heart such as you seem to have, you just might not get defensive and harden yourself to what I say.

Do I believe certain people are elected? Yes. Do I know who those people are? Nope. And since I don't know who those people are, I am to share the gospel, bc any one of those people could come to Christ because of hearing the Word. (Here's where some argument is gonna be....) I believe that they don't come to Christ because they chose to, but because God's grace yanked them out of the path to Hell and saved them. And that is the part, basically, that people will fight about, divide churches over, even...

God does NOT save people who don't first believe in Him.

He chooses to save those who believe and obey Him.

I know, I know, a lot of this will make sense BUT the kicker is that you won't believe that God would do something like condemn people to Hell. That doesn't sit right with me, mainly because saying something like that puts human constraints on God. To me, in my heart, I feel like putting a "God wouldn't do..." without it expressly saying so in the Bible is a bad idea. It's hard to explain my rationale without hearing voice inflection...

The people who go to Hell are those who reject Christ.

Back to the original comment...

As far as Calvinists who sit around and do nothing bc of predestination...well, they're wrong to do that, because we are called to share God's word. By ignoring that, they're ignoring Christ, and in my opinion, that's a bad idea. We are called to do good works, and sharing the gospel is one form of that...btw, no, works don't equal salvation, of that was the next comment.

No work no eat then one dies.

I don't know y'alls history on here but it sounded like you've bumped heads before. I didn't mean to jump into the middle of something. I just saw where I thought you were both right.

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I love debating scriptures and doctrines. I hope that you will consider what I say and that we can speak deeply of the things of God.

 

[shauna_hale]

To quote within a reply, one must, at the beginning of the sentence you want to reply to, put a bracket [ then the word QUOTE in all capital letters, then another ] at the end of the word QUOTE; make sure not to put any spaces.
Then at the end of the sentence you want to quote, put a [ then a / then the word QUOTE in capital letters and then another ]. I hope that helps.


You seem like a really nice person who is trying to see all sides.

I have been debating for many years and I know all the false teaching of the Calvinists. I hope though that you hear me out. With a kind heart such as you seem to have, you just might not get defensive and harden yourself to what I say.

Thanks, I'll try the quote thing!

I will do my best to not get upset. But, like I mentioned, when something is important emotions run high. [emoji4]

I don't believe that Calvinism is a false teaching. It doesn't take away from salvation. It doesn't change the Trinity. It doesn't disagree with anything in the Bible. But, the debate between Armeninan and Calvinism is for those more mature in the faith, which is what I was trying to point out earlier. It's like discussing dispensationalism with a 2 yr old. Not gonna get anywhere.

God does NOT save people who don't first believe in Him.

Annnd, here's the difference...there are so many verses in the Bible that mention coming to God, and also the elect. So, yeah, that's not confusing. I'm gonna try to explain it my way...we'll see how that works.

I have a hard time saying what God will or will not do because He is all powerful and He can do what he wants. For me, it's limiting His power and making Him helpless, like he's depending on man to decide their eternal life.

Think of it this way...your eyes have to be opened before you can see. The spirit saves you, then you realize you're lost. It's an instantaneous thing. But I don't believe that man, in his evil, inherently wicked ways, chooses to change his behavior on his own. He has to be shown the light to realize he was in the dark.

Yeah, so I'm hoping that made sense. It's been a long day and I just realized it's almost 1am [emoji32]

He chooses to save those who believe and obey Him.



The people who go to Hell are those who reject Christ.

No work no eat then one dies.

Not sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing here...



I love debating scriptures and doctrines. I hope that you will consider what I say and that we can speak deeply of the things of God.

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[shauna_hale]

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LOL, what happened?? How did I quote the whole thing???

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[God's Truth]

Thanks, I'll try the quote thing!

Hahahaha you will need more practice, but I will figure out this post of yours.

I will do my best to not get upset. But, like I mentioned, when something is important emotions run high.

That is true.

I don't believe that Calvinism is a false teaching. It doesn't take away from salvation.

I want to show you how it is a false teaching and how it hinders salvation and knowing God better.

It doesn't change the Trinity.

The trinity is a false doctrine too. There are three, but the three are one and the same instead of separate and different.

It doesn't disagree with anything in the Bible.

Oh but it does.

But, the debate between Armeninan and Calvinism is for those more mature in the faith, which is what I was trying to point out earlier. It's like discussing dispensationalism with a 2 yr old. Not gonna get anywhere.

I think you are right.
As a side note, I am not Armeninan, either.

Annnd, here's the difference...there are so many verses in the Bible that mention coming to God, and also the elect. So, yeah, that's not confusing. I'm gonna try to explain it my way...we'll see how that works.

I know what you as a Calvinist will say, but keep in mind what I said…God does not save unbelievers.

I have a hard time saying what God will or will not do because He is all powerful and He can do what he wants. For me, it's limiting His power and making Him helpless, like he's depending on man to decide their eternal life.

The Bible tells us plainly many times that we have to believe to be saved.
So remember that I said God does not save unbelievers.

Think of it this way...your eyes have to be opened before you can see.

God only opens the eyes of those who believe and obey.

The spirit saves you, then you realize you're lost.

No, you must believe and obey to get saved. You must know that you need to get saved before you are saved.

It's an instantaneous thing.

That is what Calvinists say.

But I don't believe that man, in his evil, inherently wicked ways, chooses to change his behavior on his own. He has to be shown the light to realize he was in the dark.

God does not save people who are evil and don't repent. God does not save people who hate Him.
God saves those who love Him by obeying Him.
A person has to search for God to get saved and they will find Him. Searching for God is to get Jesus’ teachings, and finding God is by obeying Jesus’ teachings.

Yeah, so I'm hoping that made sense. It's been a long day and I just realized it's almost 1am

You are speaking what Calvinists teach. I hope to discuss with you more in the morning.

 

[God's Truth]

LOL, what happened?? How did I quote the whole thing???

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I will try to explain how to quote again, but in a different way.

Put this before the sentence or paragraph you want to quote: [ Q U O T E ]

Put this after the sentence or paragraph you want to quote: [ / Q U O T E ]

HOWEVER, don't put spaces in between like I did. I had to do that because it would have quoted what I am trying to tell you. You probably have no idea what I mean, but later it will come to you.

 

[shauna_hale]

I will try to explain how to quote again, but in a different way.

Put this before the sentence or paragraph you want to quote: [ Q U O T E ]

Put this after the sentence or paragraph you want to quote: [ / Q U O T E ]

HOWEVER, don't put spaces in between like I did. I had to do that because it would have quoted what I am trying to tell you. You probably have no idea what I mean, but later it will come to you.

I did the quote thing, but it could be the app. I can't look at the thread while writing. I have to click on edit. I'll figure it out eventually.

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[God's Truth]

I did the quote thing, but it could be the app. I can't look at the thread while writing. I have to click on edit. I'll figure it out eventually.

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You will and you are welcome.

 

[musterion]

He is not a robot. He was kind, and loving, and empathetic. He showed mercy and kindness to sinners.

He called people fools, wicked and dogs. He's going wipe out armies with His Word, judge the earth and see people cast into the Lake of Fire.

He did not say hey! You committed adultery you will now pay the price!! He showed that women mercy, and kindness and instead he said yes she did sin, the person who has never sinned may throw the first stone.

People read mercy and grace into this incident when it wasn't really about that. It was about a legal technicality. Christ didn't let her off the hook just because of mercy and kindness. That is a common lie that needs to die.

The Law - which He upheld TO THE LETTER - demanded witnesses AND that the guilty man be brought forth as well. The pharisees did not bring forth the man, only her. It was a stupid, clumsy trap -- but had He condemned her as the Pharisees wanted, He would have broken the Law Himself. That's why He didn't condemn her. But He did tell her not to do it again.

That is not a robot. When people were spitting and mocking him he said it’s ok Father, they don’t know what they are doing forgive them. That is not a robot.

Back to my original point, which you tried to dodge. If people here are guilty for telling others to repent (which actually means "change your mind"), why was Christ not guilty for doing the same? Can you answer this honestly?

 

[meshak]

Thanks for the lesson on the good samaritan. I think you're misunderstanding what I meant.

I am not misunderstanding.

I know where you are coming from. Most Christians here back you up because you are not taking Jesus' teachings seriously.

That's the point of this thread.


What I showed you is Jesus made it clear how to inherit eternal life. Do you take heed of what Jesus said?

 

[shauna_hale]

I am not misunderstanding.

I know where you are coming from. Most Christians here back you up because you are not taking Jesus' teachings seriously.

That's the point of this thread.


What I showed you is Jesus made it clear how to inherit eternal life. Do you take heed of what Jesus said?

Ok, first of all, you are now attacking me, and this is what I meant in the first place.

You don't know me, you don't know my heart, so how can you sit there and tell me I'm not taking His teachings seriously?

Tell me then, what are Jesus' teachings? What do you believe? You tell me, how does one get to Heaven?

I know my beliefs and I know where I stand. What I don't know, really, is what you're referring to.



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[musterion]

Ok, first of all, you are now attacking me, and this is what I meant in the first place.

You don't know me, you don't know my heart, so how can you sit there and tell me I'm not taking His teachings seriously?

Tell me then, what are Jesus' teachings? What do you believe? You tell me, how does one get to Heaven?

I know my beliefs and I know where I stand. What I don't know, really, is what you're referring to.

If I may say something. Take it or leave it but a dozen other people on TOL, including mods, will back up the truthfulness of this.

I don't know if you have ever been here before under another name and are only pretending to be new -- we get there here A LOT. But assuming you are truly new, allow me to point out something you'll want to know.

Meshak ALWAYS turns on people she is initially positive toward. Heaven will have no one in it but Meshak. No one is as righteous as Mehsak. NO ONE. She once condemned everyone who believes in the biblical concept of the Trinity as secret sex perverts and tried getting them to admit to the sexual sins she was convinced we're all guilty of. Sounds insane? Ask anyone who was here when she first arrived if you doubt it.

Further, in the past some of us spotted different people posting under the Meshak login. She (whoever Meshak really is) finally admitted this was the case, and so was told to stop. Some of us suspect it still goes on...if you watch Meshak's posts carefully over time, you'll see why.

If you are really new, may I suggest your best bet is to put Meshak on Ignore and leave her there forever. It is simply never worth responding to her...she either ignores what you say IN RESPONSE TO HER POSTS or plays the victim, and (again) always turns on those who try to befriend her. Every single time, without fail. Same goes with God's Truth and a few others...they're not really listening to anyone and are incapable of true discussion...but Meshak is literally the stupidest of the lot and a waste of time to talk to. This is not an exaggeration: Meshak may as well be a bot because she isn't really listening to ANYONE.

Just trying to help.

 

[shauna_hale]

If I may say something. Take it or leave it but a dozen other people on TOL, including mods, will back up the truthfulness of this.

I don't know if you have ever been here before under another name and are only pretending to be new -- we get there here A LOT. But assuming you are truly new, allow me to point out something you'll want to know.

Meshak ALWAYS turns on people she is initially positive toward. Heaven will have no one in it but Meshak. No one is as righteous as Mehsak. NO ONE. She once condemned everyone who believes in the biblical concept of the Trinity as secret sex perverts and tried getting them to admit to the sexual sins she was convinced we're all guilty of. Sounds insane? Ask anyone who was here when she first arrived if you doubt it.

Further, in the past some of us spotted different people posting under the Meshak login. She (whoever Meshak really is) finally admitted this was the case, and so was told to stop. Some of us suspect it still goes on...if you watch Meshak's posts carefully over time, you'll see why.

If you are really new, may I suggest your best bet is to put Meshak on Ignore and leave her there forever. It is simply never worth responding to her...she either ignores what you say IN RESPONSE TO HER POSTS or plays the victim, and (again) always turns on those who try to befriend her. Every single time, without fail. Same goes with God's Truth and a few others...they're not really listening to anyone and are incapable of true discussion...but Meshak is literally the stupidest of the lot and a waste of time to talk to. This is not an exaggeration: Meshak may as well be a bot because she isn't really listening to ANYONE.

Just trying to help.

Thank you! That is so helpful!! I am new, add of yesterday, and I was contemplating removing myself because of this.

Thanks!

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[Rusha]

I don’t want someone to tell me to wear a hijab, but I respect those women that want to. I don’t want people to tell me what to believe. If I want to be a racist, anti abortionist, whatever whatever I’m allowed to as long as I am respectful to gays and those who get abortions!

While I agree with a good portion of your post, I wanted to make the point in reference to abortion that IF someone is anti-abortion for virtuous reasons (protecting the life of an unborn baby), there is no way one could see abortion as a valid *choice*. It's making a decision to either kill an unborn baby or allow him/her to live and thrive.

 

[musterion]

Thank you! That is so helpful!! I am new, add of yesterday, and I was contemplating removing myself because of this.

Thanks!

You are welcome.

May I ask you what is the saving Gospel? What must a sinner know and do to be saved? I ask that of everyone who is new so I'm not singling you out.

 

[shauna_hale]

You are welcome.

May I ask you what is the saving Gospel? What must a sinner know and do to be saved? I ask that of everyone who is new so I'm not singling you out.

It's no problem.

Believe Christ is your Lord and Savior, that he died on the cross for your sins. Confess with your mouth and believe with you heart and you shall be saved. That's the only actual "do". No works will get you there. Being a "good person" won't get you there.

And once you're saved, there's no losing salvation. We may stray from the path but we are reprimanded, as children are.

I won't get into carnal Christians or acting Christians at the moment...


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[musterion]

It's no problem.

Believe Christ is your Lord and Savior, that he died on the cross for your sins. Confess with your mouth and believe with you heart and you shall be saved. That's the only actual "do". No works will get you there. Being a "good person" won't get you there.

And once you're saved, there's no losing salvation. We may stray from the path but we are reprimanded, as children are.

Thank you. I don't often get direct answers to that question.

I won't get into carnal Christians or acting Christians at the moment...

On TOL, you will. It's just a matter of time.