[MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION] and [MENTION=10015]Lazy afternoon[/MENTION]
I scripturally dub thee both... Wimp Lo
I scripturally dub thee both... Wimp Lo
Direct assault on Satan (Evil's.<(I)> Naughty List)
- Thread starter Evil.Eye.<(I)>
- Start date
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
In whose service are you?
In whose service are you?
I think recognizing 'God' in every moment of existence, as being omnipresent, all-pervading, immanent and transcendent, is a wonderful awareness to assume. 'God' even now, in us, as us....is in 'fleshed', yet He is equally transcending all forms as well, as the truly INFINITE.
I think Jesus came to reveal 'God', so we could be sons of God like him, indwelt and anointed by His Spirit.
I think Jesus is more concerned about us loving one another, and finding the kingdom of heaven within, than he is about one formulating the correct or most 'orhtodox' Christology, because what counts most is how we emulate the life of Jesus and follow after him, aspiring to DO as he did, to live the religion he lived.
As you know, I can debate with the best of em on fine points of Christology, but sometimes too much 'theologizing' can QUENCH the Spirit, and foster dogmas that imprison rather than liberate the soul of man.
I will say again, that a Unitarian or Trinitarian view of God and Christ (their relationship) is on equal ground only being 'conditional' to the point where such a conceptual approach or understanding affects one's relationship with 'God'. It really may or may not influence or support a positive or negative effect, but it could. - it all depends on how or if one is using their religious beliefs and concepts in service to the Spirit. If it is not being used in service to love, edification, encouragement, empowerment of souls....it is either useless, non-essential, trivia or merely 'cosmetics'.
Having my own former threads on Historical Unitarian Christianity and Arian Chrsitianity, I still say that these differences in Christology may not even matter, beyond being conceptual frames, intellectual props to help in our understanding of relationships. Just words folks. I know we have to use word-symbols to communicate. - but words can confuse or confound the liberty of spirit. If they are mere letters empty of true meaning and value of an eternal nature or principle,...their merit or utility is more or less questionable. Hence I call for a pause of reflection, to see if our intents or motives are true to God's essential will, or are they more or less serving our own religious ego and its ambitions. Who or what are we serving? These are serious questions we must ask, daily.
In whose service are you?
I think recognizing 'God' in every moment of existence, as being omnipresent, all-pervading, immanent and transcendent, is a wonderful awareness to assume. 'God' even now, in us, as us....is in 'fleshed', yet He is equally transcending all forms as well, as the truly INFINITE.
I think Jesus came to reveal 'God', so we could be sons of God like him, indwelt and anointed by His Spirit.
I think Jesus is more concerned about us loving one another, and finding the kingdom of heaven within, than he is about one formulating the correct or most 'orhtodox' Christology, because what counts most is how we emulate the life of Jesus and follow after him, aspiring to DO as he did, to live the religion he lived.
As you know, I can debate with the best of em on fine points of Christology, but sometimes too much 'theologizing' can QUENCH the Spirit, and foster dogmas that imprison rather than liberate the soul of man.
I will say again, that a Unitarian or Trinitarian view of God and Christ (their relationship) is on equal ground only being 'conditional' to the point where such a conceptual approach or understanding affects one's relationship with 'God'. It really may or may not influence or support a positive or negative effect, but it could. - it all depends on how or if one is using their religious beliefs and concepts in service to the Spirit. If it is not being used in service to love, edification, encouragement, empowerment of souls....it is either useless, non-essential, trivia or merely 'cosmetics'.
Having my own former threads on Historical Unitarian Christianity and Arian Chrsitianity, I still say that these differences in Christology may not even matter, beyond being conceptual frames, intellectual props to help in our understanding of relationships. Just words folks. I know we have to use word-symbols to communicate. - but words can confuse or confound the liberty of spirit. If they are mere letters empty of true meaning and value of an eternal nature or principle,...their merit or utility is more or less questionable. Hence I call for a pause of reflection, to see if our intents or motives are true to God's essential will, or are they more or less serving our own religious ego and its ambitions. Who or what are we serving? These are serious questions we must ask, daily.
Yes, he is very sleazy and vague.
When it is pointed out he calls me I am divisive and slanderer
How dare you call me "Sneezy"!
I prefer Doc!
And... how dare you misquote me!
The exact quote is...
Lastly... if I wanted to see "vague"... I would ask what Ephesians 2:8 means.
# Peace ... Sister
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Kind of like a kinder, more gentle Mohammad?
[MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION] ...
The Great Isaiah Scroll (1QIsaa) is one of the original seven Dead Sea Scrolls discovered in Qumran in 1947. It is the largest (734 cm) and best preserved of all the biblical scrolls, and the only one that is almost complete. The 54 columns contain all 66 chapters of the Hebrew version of the biblical Book of Isaiah. Dating from ca. 125 BCE, it is also one of the oldest of the Dead Sea Scrolls, some one thousand years older than the oldest manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible known to us before the scrolls' discovery.
The Great Isaiah Scroll Translated... at verse 6 of Chapter 9
23. with burning consuming fire. (5) Because a child shall be born to us and a son is given to us and the government shall be upon
24. his shoulders and he shall be called wonderful, counsellor, mighty God, everlasting father the prince of peace. (6) Of the increase
25. of his government [&waw&} and his peace there shall be no end. upon the throne of David and over his kingdom to order it and to establish it
Isaiah 9:6
For a child is born to us, a son is given to us; dominion will rest on his shoulders, and he will be given the name Pele-Yo‘etz El Gibbor Avi-‘Ad Sar-Shalom Wonder of a Counselor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace,
... And you respond to this how?
# Daqq stuttering in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....
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jsanford108
New member
It isn't law at all.
Matthew 7:16, John 13:35 both illustrate works. It says that people shall know a Christian by their deeds/works. A person can have faith, but not acting on that faith (like following the commandments) then that faith is useless. Why? Because they have not obeyed God/Christ. How does one love their neighbor? How does one bear witness to others? How does one aide the poor, infirm, widows, etc? Works.
Works without faith is just as useless as faith without works. No one can work themselves into heaven. Likewise, no one can just believe themselves into heaven.
By your assertion, Scripture intended for Israel is unnecessary, correct? If that is the case, why have the Old Testament at all? If it is just obsolete, let's be rid of it. If anyone is distorting the message of the Bible, it cannot be Catholics, since we hold that the Old Testament is equally important as the New Testament. God of the Old is the same God in the New. Christ himself kept and observed the laws of the Old Testament. But you say that we don't need those. A reasonable deduction from such a belief could be that Christ was an archaic guy since He held on to old laws and traditions. Naturally though, one would scoff at such an attribute, due to its contradictory implications. So if anyone is misapplying Scripture and distorting the messages of the Bible, it would be those like yourself.
What is the most successful way to bring someone to repentance in the Bible?
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jsanford108
New member
jsanford108
New member
Courage... Acts 9:28f
I like it.
Let's start small. What is the highest name in scripture?
jsanford108
New member
Christ.
Feel free to list your rhetorical questions in one post (with answers if you like), so that we may progress more rapidly. I am sure we both have at least a collegiate and academic approach to theology and Scripture.
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I don't think you're stupid... for now... it is easiest to move slow... this way we don't misunderstand one another.
It also helps me understand your theological comprehension.
And... Indeed... "Christ... Or Mashiack... or Messiah...
But... Would you agree that Messiah is just a title... and Only One holds that title?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
According to the Lord Jesus faith results in a person receiving eternal life so how can you say that that "faith without works" is worthless?
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.
In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:
"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."
Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occurring in actual time."
So once a person believes he receives eternal life. Anything which happens to anyone after he believes, such as doing good works, cannot contribute in any way to that person's receiving eternal life.
Wise up. No one has to do "works" in order to receive the "gift" of eternal life:
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Ro.6:23).
Believers are justified "freely" by grace in the eyes of the Lord so no one has to do works in order to be justified freely by His grace:
"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).
jsanford108
New member
Sure.
So we both agree that Jesus is the Messiah... And Jesus is the highest name in scripture.
Now... In your own words... what did Jesus save us from?
That's a method of the greater whole.
The answer is to bring the law to bear against them.
I was going to put this in my previous comment, but decided to wait.
The Bible shows us that when the law (which can only condemn, it cannot give life) is brought against the sinner, the sinner becomes broken. When the penalty or punishment is death, the bible records that 50% of those who are executed come to repentance.
When we say that the Old Testament is useless, and that the Law shouldn't be used, we unknowingly undermine the entire gospel message.
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jsanford108
New member
Hello Jerry! I always enjoy conversing with you.
How do you reconcile your argument with James 2:24 (which is the only verse in the Bible with the words "faith alone")?
Also, just because the Blue Letter Bible claims to hold an efficient translation and interpretation, doesn't make it so. If I may dive a little deeper, disregarding Blue Letter's interpretation, and simply examine the Biblical passage(s) itself.
John 5:24 says "believes Him." Many of the things that Christ taught were acts, correct? Care and love for neighbor, aiding the infirm, etc. What are these actions? They would fall into a labeling of "Works."
Now, at no point have I said that works must be done to receive the gift of Christ. However, I do hold that works should be manifest if someone has faith. They coexist.
I can give you a gift. You can keep the gift. But if you place it in a closet, never open it, and forget about it, you still have the gift. But if you never use the gift, what good has it done you? You have wasted an opportunity to enjoy a gift. Hence, the rational conclusion that faith without works is useless. (and vise versa)