Christian Kids in the Public School

[ParsonJefferson]

Let's say for a moment you were right. That homeschoolers are idiots compared to public schoolers. (Which statistics utterly refute)

The fact remains that MORAL intelligence will be what affects a person for all eternity. Academic intelligence can only help in this life, which is extremly short in light of eternity.

First of all, you should have noticed the "wink" emoticon...

But having said that, are you implying that my children have no MORAL intelligence, as a result of having been in the public schools?

 

[Nineveh]

PJ, I asked you twice what sex ed you created and taught for a week. I find it hard to believe you would brag so openly about something you just don't recall teaching. Would you kindly share what "sex ed from a Christian prespective" entails.

Who is going to teach your kids advanced trigonometry, chemistry and physics?

ABeka covers most of that. If I need help, it's available

Personally, I am qualified to teach some subjects at a college level. But there are other subjects that I am not qualified to teach - even at a junior high level. It is silly to think that I can do a better job teaching some of these specific disciplines than those who have college (and advanced college) degrees in them.

That's why we have home schooling groups. Not to mention the vast diversity of materials we have access to. A lot of advanced classes were off limits to most of us in PS.

peer pressure exists in public schools - just like it exists everywhere.

I beg to differ. That was the reality I noticed after being released from PS. People at work are much less likely to ridicule what you wear, or team up with 5 other people and threaten to do you bodily harm for not doing/saying "X". When it comes to sexual matters, the public work place has harassment laws, while in my experience sexual harassment in PS was the law.

You cannot hold the kids responsible, when their parents either don't care, aren't around, or defend them.

THIS is the REAL problem with Public Schools. PARENTS. And we're simply reaping - now - what has been being sown for decades.

When the fed promises to step into a parental role, is it any wonder when people take them up on it? Look at the situation the fed created by replacing dads with a check.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

Parson, I would not elevate trigonometry, chemistry, or physics above my child's heart and soul.
It is the HOME-SCHOOLERS here who are bragging incessantly about the superiority of home-schooling.
So... are home-schooled kids better educated than public school kids? If they aren't taught trigonometry, chemistry and physics, I'd say the answer to that question is, "No."

I would not say it is more important to learn those things than to keep my kids from being exposed to the wickedness that goes on in public schools, and to have their faith assaulted on a daily basis with evolutionary theory.
At what age are you going to help your kids deal with the nonsense of the Religion of Evolution? Believe me, it's taught everywhere. They're going to have to face it sooner or later.

To see all of their friends involved in sex, drugs, and rock n' roll. To learn the kinds of slogans that were popular in MY public school, such as "Sex, drugs, and rock n' roll, speed, weed, and birth control, life sucks and then you die, so ____ the world and lets get high." I cannot count how many times slogans like these were slung around our school by students as early as the 6th grade.
That is an INCREDIBLE broad-brush statement, and blanket criticism.

In most public schools, if a young boy has not had sex by his junior year in high school he is made fun of by his peers. I know because SADLY I was one of those arrogant young football players making fun of my peers, engaging in the womanizing mindset! I would never want that for my kids. NEVER.
Another INCREDIBLE broad-brush statement, and blanket criticism.

There are many methods for teaching your children these days. There are homeschool conventions in which curriculum is sold for any subject you can imagine. There are audio CD's, DVD's, instructional videos, online programs, any number of DIFFERENT ways to educate your kids in subjects that you might not be strong in. All of which DO NOT involve sending them off to a cesspool of immoral activity and anti-God teaching!
That's great!

I pray you will see the wisdom of our posts and stop assaulting your brothers and sisters in Christ who homeschool.
And I pray that you will stop assaulting, and criticizing, those who have chosen to send our kids to public schools, get involved, and make a difference.

I REALLY wish home-schoolers would stop being so condescending, critical, and nasty toward those who are choosing to be Salt & Light in the public schools. It is not a Christ-like attitude or approach.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

I want to address the last part of your post here, ParsonJefferson. Knowing what public schools have done in their area, to them, and sometimes to one or more of their children, sometimes causes parents to speak out very harshly against public schools.
I fully understand that. However, I DO NOT appreciate this condescending, mocking, broad-brush criticism that comes from the Home-School Crowd.

Although I support homeschooling with all of my heart and believe that a badly home-educated child is better off that a well-educated public school graduate, I believe that it should be the parent alone who determines how his/her child/ren are educated. Yet, you will see me bad-mouth public schools along with the best of them. My own experiences as both a student and a parent with public schools have left me with a sour taste in my mouth.
I fully understand that.
Can you understand that that has NOT been my experience? Can you understand that there ARE a LOT of EXCELLENT public schools in our country - or would that be impossible to admit?

Like you, I was a parent who wanted to be involved in my child's education. I made it clear at both public schools she attended. The first one was quick to show both my daughter and me the door. The second one basically told me that parents should leave all of education to the people who are trained to do the job and stay out of it. Boy! Was that the wrong thing to tell me after two years of homeschooling or what? :chuckle: Needless to say, I yanked my daughter out of that school quicker than an oiled pig will slip out of your hands.
Again, that is your experience. It has not been mine.

One question that I've posed to "professional educators" is, "Who, exactly, do you think educated my daughter before she started school?" All I've gotten in response was blank stares. Not one of them want to answer that question because it shows that a parent can, and maybe should, educate their own child/ren. I've had a public school teacher tell me that I shouldn't have allowed my daughter to learn to read before she was in second grade because it caused problems with her wanting to go ahead of her classmates. Well, she taught herself to read when she was two years old. And, she didn't learn from reading Dick and Jane books either; she read newspapers and encyclopedias. The first indication I had that we would have problems with school was when she was eighteen months old. She took a Phillips head screwdriver, took apart my alarm clock, and put it back together (missing only one spring). I just about had a heart attack when I saw her putting it back together. :chuckle:
Your girl sounds a lot like our oldest son, who taught himself to read when he was 3.

You, and others, think that we are wrong for not sending our children out to be little missionaries in the public schools.
No, this is where the "Auto-Defense System of Home-Schoolers" has kicked in.
I have not said it's wrong to home-school your kids, if that's what you honestly believe is best.
I HAVE said it is wrong to just sit on our butts and criticize the public schools, without doing anything constructive to help improve them. I HAVE said that the attitudes expressed - in this thread - by some of the home-school proponents are nothing less than caustic and un-Christian.

Well, I happen to agree with the other parents who have said that we should leave that job to Christian adults who have already had their educations completed. Christian children are rarely ready to evangelize to their friends and classmates. It's hard enough to do when you're an adult. But, with the newer rules at schools about Christian jewelry not being allowed, Christian t-shirts not being allowed, Bibles not being allowed, and in some cases, prayer meetings not being allowed (When I was in high school, the principal outlawed our bringing our Bibles to study on our own time during lunch break and said that we weren't allowed to meet before school in the quad for a short prayer meeting.), how can our children effectively minister to other children? Things are going to get worse before they get better, ParsonJefferson.
This is likely true.
And one of the reasons is that Christians - who are supposed to be Salt & Light - have been simply absenting ourselves from public schools for the last 25 years. We ARE reaping what we've sown.

Good points. Thank you!

 

[ParsonJefferson]

Pardon my bluntness, but that's malarky! My friend is a homeschooling mother of eight kids. When her oldest son graduated he took the SAT, instead of the ACT. And, guess what. He scored a perfect score. In fact, most homeschooled high schoolers that I know have scored either a perfect score or close to perfect score on the ACT, the SAT, and the ASVAB tests.

As a public school graduate, I can say that I got a 33 out of 36 on the ACT and a 98 out of 100 on the ASVAB. My recruiter said that I got the highest score by a woman on the first half of the test and the highest overall score on the test ever at that time (1987). The reason I didn't join the military is because I wanted to go into nuclear physics and my recruiter said that only ten people were chosen for that program a year, and one of those ten was a woman!

I will be scheduling my daughter to take both the ACT and the ASVAB tests next year. In fact, I might try to get her to take the ASVAB this summer so that she doesn't have to deal with two tests in the same general time frame. Like me, my daughter tests extremely well (on the national standardized tests, she scores in the high 90s in percentage...she always scores well above grade level). I'm not bragging. It's a fact. We both do well under the pressure of a time limit and score high.

I'm sorry, but I absolutely do NOT believe that "most" home-schooled kids score either perfect, or close to perfect, scores on their ACTs. I evaluated college scholarship applications - for years - where I used to live, and that simply was NOT the case.

You will need to provide me something, other than your own claim, to back up that statement.

If you got a 33 of 36 on your ACT, you are obviously EXTREMELY SMART! That's great! But I will PROMISE you that you are in the extreme minority - and by that, I do mean EXTREME.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

But - I haven't been to just one PS. Seeing that I was a terror, doing drugs etc, I got kicked out more than once. I was in 6 different schools and all of them were the same. Sex, drugs & rock 'n roll.

I fail to see how this is the result of, or fault of, the Public School system. It's about personal choices.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

PJ, I asked you twice what sex ed you created and taught for a week. I find it hard to believe you would brag so openly about something you just don't recall teaching. Would you kindly share what "sex ed from a Christian prespective" entails.

First of all, I really don't appreciate your tone. Are you implying that I'm lying about this? Or are you so steeped in your hatred of Public Schools that you simply CANNOT bring yourself to admit that this sort of thing just MIGHT be possible?

Now... this will be the THIRD time that I've told you, "We wrote our own material."
It will be the SECOND time that I've told you, "I don't have access to it right now."

The reason I don't have access to it is because I left it at my "old church" last year when we moved. I left it there because the Ministerial Association and Youth Ministers' Association still go into the public school every year and teaches Sex Ed.

But here's the basics of what we did...
1. The material we used EVOLVED (pardon the swear word...) over the years, because we did this over a period of nearly 20 years. Some of the stuff we did worked well, and other stuff didn't connect.
2. We used several "situation" skits - concerning dating, sexual choices, etc.
3. We presented them with facts and statistics concerning STDs and AIDS. We also gave them information about OTHER problems with teens having sex - specifically, economic issues, self esteem issues, future relationship issues, etc.
4. We interacted with the kids, in many ways, in order to earn the right to be heard. We involved them in the skits, in worksheets and in deciding "you determine the ending" skits.
5. There was ALWAYS one "lead pastor" or "lead youth pastor" would would give a very serious, "Why Wait" talk. It was ALWAYS centered around the fact that sex is a good and wonderful thing, created by God, to be enjoyed - but in the right context. And that context is marriage.
6. We allowed them to ask ANY questions they wanted - and did so by writing them on papers and handing them in. And we answered all of them honestly.
7. All of us gave our personal testimonies about our faith, our lives and about how sexual decisions we had made - good or bad - have impacted us.


I hope this clears it up a little.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

ABeka covers most of that. If I need help, it's available

That's why we have home schooling groups. Not to mention the vast diversity of materials we have access to. A lot of advanced classes were off limits to most of us in PS.

I beg to differ. That was the reality I noticed after being released from PS. People at work are much less likely to ridicule what you wear, or team up with 5 other people and threaten to do you bodily harm for not doing/saying "X". When it comes to sexual matters, the public work place has harassment laws, while in my experience sexual harassment in PS was the law.

When the fed promises to step into a parental role, is it any wonder when people take them up on it? Look at the situation the fed created by replacing dads with a check.

"The Fed" has stepped into the parental role because parents have abandoned it - and that is nobody's fault but our own!

 

[JustinFoldsFive]

Here is a basic question for the anti-public schoolers; do you believe a Christian who attends public school can be just as "morally intelligent" as a Christian who is home-schooled?

 

[Nineveh]

"The Fed" has stepped into the parental role because parents have abandoned it - and that is nobody's fault but our own!

These didn't seem to be such pressing problems back before the fed took over education. I've heard it said it was a rare thing for someone to be illiterate in the colonies.

First of all, I really don't appreciate your tone. Are you implying that I'm lying about this? Or are you so steeped in your hatred of Public Schools that you simply CANNOT bring yourself to admit that this sort of thing just MIGHT be possible?

Knock it off already. What you read into my posts is your problem. I tried to call your attention to this a page or two back.

2. We used several "situation" skits - concerning dating, sexual choices, etc.
3. We presented them with facts and statistics concerning STDs and AIDS. We also gave them information about OTHER problems with teens having sex - specifically, economic issues, self esteem issues, future relationship issues, etc.
4. We interacted with the kids, in many ways, in order to earn the right to be heard. We involved them in the skits, in worksheets and in deciding "you determine the ending" skits.
5. There was ALWAYS one "lead pastor" or "lead youth pastor" would would give a very serious, "Why Wait" talk. It was ALWAYS centered around the fact that sex is a good and wonderful thing, created by God, to be enjoyed - but in the right context. And that context is marriage.
6. We allowed them to ask ANY questions they wanted - and did so by writing them on papers and handing them in. And we answered all of them honestly.
7. All of us gave our personal testimonies about our faith, our lives and about how sexual decisions we had made - good or bad - have impacted us.

Thanks, finally.

I hope this clears it up a little.

Everything except your attitude.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

These didn't seem to be such pressing problems back before the fed took over education. I've heard it said it was a rare thing for someone to be illiterate in the colonies.
300 years ago, we didn't have parents abdicating their God-given role as parents.
This is apples and oranges.


Knock it off already. What you read into my posts is your problem. I tried to call your attention to this a page or two back.
Knock it off already.
I answered your question repeatedly. Why weren't my answers acceptable?


Thanks, finally.
This was nothing more than an elaboration on what I already told you twice.


Everything except your attitude.
And how about yours?
Has your attitude been "Christian" through any of this?

...

 

[ebenz47037]

But - I haven't been to just one PS. Seeing that I was a terror, doing drugs etc, I got kicked out more than once. I was in 6 different schools and all of them were the same. Sex, drugs & rock 'n roll.

Six schools? That's all? I was a Navy brat and went to 25 different schools from kindergarten to twelfth grade.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

Six schools? That's all? I was a Navy brat and went to 25 different schools from kindergarten to twelfth grade.

Sounds like a bad deal to me. Sorry to hear that.

 

[Nineveh]

PJ,
"300 years ago, we didn't have parents abdicating their God-given role as parents."

I thought that was what I was pointing out. When the fed offers to take responsibility, people let them.

"I answered your question repeatedly. Why weren't my answers acceptable?"

I thanked you when you finally did.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

PJ,
"300 years ago, we didn't have parents abdicating their God-given role as parents."

I thought that was what I was pointing out. When the fed offers to take responsibility, people let them.

"I answered your question repeatedly. Why weren't my answers acceptable?"

I thanked you when you finally did.

Apparently I missed the "Thank You" the first two times you did.

 

[JustinFoldsFive]

I thought that was what I was pointing out. When the fed offers to take responsibility, people let them.

How does the government "offer to take responsibility" when parents divorce? My parents got divorced about 14 years ago, and until I was 18 years-old, my Dad sent $1,000 each month. The federal government did nothing (and they shouldn't have). I can't see your point.

 

[Nineveh]

Apparently I missed the "Thank You" the first two times you did.

You didn't offer the curriculum the first two times.

 

[Nineveh]

How does the government "offer to take responsibility" when parents divorce? My parents got divorced about 14 years ago, and until I was 18 years-old, my Dad sent $1,000 each month. The federal government did nothing (and they shouldn't have). I can't see your point.

Nor can I see yours. How is this paragraph replying to what I said?

 

[ParsonJefferson]

You didn't offer the curriculum the first two times.

This is pointless.

You're determined that every public school is of Satan, and that nothing good takes place - ever - in any of them.

I'm sorry that your experiences have been so negative. But you REALLY need to stop being so nasty to, and start listening to, people who HAVE had positive experiences and had a positive influence in the Public Schools.

 

[dataanapar]

You're determined that every public school is of Satan, and that nothing good takes place - ever - in any of them.

Just b/c some people magically come out of public schools good does not mean that schools are good. The law issued by God was good; however, the majority of Jews did not go to heaven. The Holocaust was evil; however, many people became rich b/c of it. You cannot base the goodness of something on the feedback. It needs to be based on God's Word, and His moral standards.

And the schools definately do not teach God's moral standards.