Eagles Wings
New member
I asked my hubby and he loves history because it shows us how we got here.
Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
So you believe in the doctrine that God damns billions to hell before they are born is an enlightenment to the multitudes and delivers people from spiritual darkness?
Just because I happen to agree with what they teach, that does not make JW.
I don't try to study JW teaching. You churchgoers study what your leader taught, and your case, it is John Calvin.
I agree with many of Marhig believes does that make me I am her follower?
Remember I was in this forum way before her?. So your reasoning is so childish, and you seem to portrait yourself as a teacher of the Bible.
Lon
Well-known member
1 Corinthians 1:18 Read your sentence as a non-Calvinist: Do you believe millions are not, and many more are not going to be saved Christians? :think:
Nang
TOL Subscriber
I believe divine and Unconditional Election is Truth. I believe it to reveal the will of Sovereign God, who is perfectly righteous in all He ordains. I do not question His acts. I confess Romans 11:33-36 with all my heart.
Why don't you?
Lon
Well-known member
By the same logic, does it make me a Calvinite to say I agree with Calvin? I don't care if someone calls me a Marhigist or a Calvinist. I only care if it is Biblical. I'm not necessarily a Paulite or Paulist either, but I do follow Paul. Does any of this make sense?
Log-eye, remove it. -Lon
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Yep.
God has a purpose for everything under the sun . . and works all things together for the good of those who love Him.
Who can argue against His goodness? Not me . . .
Lon
Well-known member
Whereas I agree with you that JW's are an organization, you are projecting that onto Calvinism. You can't be a Calvinist and a JW. You are correct on that point, but Calvinists are Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. The difference: JW is both an organization and a theology. Calvinism is a systematic theology, but not a church per say. A non-Calvinist might attend a Presbyterian church, by example.
Lon
Well-known member
:idunno: I disagree. I believe Nang, Crucible, and I have all answered your question.
However, explain what you need. I'll try and help you discern the answer.
Shasta
Well-known member
In the context of this passage Balak first took Balaam a hill overlooking the camps of Israel but instead of pronouncing curses Balaam spoke blessings. Balak then took him to another hill, hoping for different results but again Balaam disappointed him by speaking only blessings on Israel. That is when Balaam prophesied the verses you cited: [/I](Numbers 23:19-22)
The meaning of this prophecy is that God is not capricious. He does not arbitrarily make and reverse His decisions like human beings impulsively "change His minds". God certainly does not lie. For these reasons God's word can be depended upon. Viewing Israel from different vantage points had no effect in changing God's mind about His people because His perspective was Spiritual. No matter which hill they were viewed from Israel were Hi obedient children.
Still, there are things which will cause God to change His mind about what He has said. These involve our attitudes and decisions. In this book, many of the very people God had promised to bless fell into judgment for committing sexual sins with the woman of Midian. Interestingly, it was Balaam who had came up with idea of getting the Midianite women to seduce the Israeli men. Having failed at getting God to change His disposition towards them he then decided to change their disposition towards God. Balaam knew that God, being holy, could not bless what was unholy and He would have to judge them (Numbers 31:16). This analysis should demonstrate that Numbers 23:19-22cannot be taken as a proof text to mean that "God never alters His decrees or His disposition towards anyone.
God changes His mind when people change theirs because He is merciful and just. When a people choose evil and God prophesies judgment He will reverse that decree when they repent and pronounce blessing. Conversely, if a people are serving Him and God pronounces a blessing IF they rebel God can and does retract the promised blessing and instead brings them into judgment (Jeremiah 18:7-10). It does not seem in reading this passage that it is speaking of an exception but rather to God's standard operating procedure which can be seen on the individual as well as the national level.
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I would not characterize God changing His mind in response to intercession or repentence as His "bending" to our will. This makes it sound like a power struggle. Of course, it only seems to be a power struggle to someone who has adopted the position that God is committed His power to control everything.
I think God wants us to be at work in the harvest participating in His plan of redemption. Very often responds to our prayers when He would not have had we not prayed. A simple statement to this effect isJames 4:3. For you to say our prayers have nothing to do with our receiving anything is a blatant denial of scripture.
A "preordained option" is a logical contradiction by which I mean not that it is a valid paradox but that it is nonsense. If things are preordained there are no REAL options at all. I could show you many events that contradict this in scripture but it would not matter because even when the Bible indicates that God changed His mind or that God acted in response to human prayer you would say the person's prayer was preordained or that God really did not change His mind. Calvinism denies the apparent meaning of the scriptures in order to import the presuppositions of theistic determinism. Now it is not a logical contradiction to say, as the ECFs did, that God foreknows what choices people WILL make but does not necessitate them.