If you believe that then you also believe that God is unjust.
The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ. Not all come to Christ. Many love their sins more than they love Christ.
Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
If you believe that then you also believe that God is unjust.
The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ. Not all come to Christ. Many love their sins more than they love Christ.
If it were so easy to refute, Calvin wouldn't have taken over Geneva. It wouldn't boast the name 'Reformed' over all others that came from the rebellion against Rome. Presbyterians wouldn't have adopted it, and the Catholic Church would have tried to sabotage it. Instead, they got in bed with Lutherans and Methodists don't know whether to remain Protestant or go back home to the Anglicans.
Nobody wants to mess with Reformed churches, they are iron fists
Calvinism is not an easy entity to oppose, those like yourself are just a bit deluded is all.
If it were so easy to refute, Calvin wouldn't have taken over Geneva. It wouldn't boast the name 'Reformed' over all others that came from the rebellion against Rome. Presbyterians wouldn't have adopted it, and the Catholic Church would have tried to sabotage it. Instead, they got in bed with Lutherans and Methodists don't know whether to remain Protestant or go back home to the Anglicans.
Nobody wants to mess with Reformed churches, they are iron fists
Calvinism is not an easy entity to oppose, those like yourself are just a bit deluded is all.
John Calvin was a murderous tyrant. Hundreds died because they opposed him.
lifeisgood
New member
So, let's see
beloved57 fell in the sea and is drowning
there's a shark coming with his jaws ready to take beloved57 on
someone throws beloved57 a line for salvation
ALL beloved57 has to do is extend his/her hand and hold on to the line.
However, because beloved57 extending his/her hand deems it to be work, the shark ate beloved57 all in one piece and beloved57 was lost.
So much for work. :think:
Death by epic beard whipping :idunno:
There's a lot of myths those like yourself have produced over the centuries. You all did it first with the Catholic Church, saying that they persecuted millions of people during the Inquisitions.
And you all do the same with Calvin. Like the death of Servetus as a famous example- Calvin didn't do it.
Spending all that time bearing false witness can't be good for the soul..
beloved57
Well-known member
False statements not found in the scriptures!
HisServant
New member
lifeisgood
New member
So have you ever answered Tambora?
Do you tell your children when you put them to bed that God loves them?
Or
do you tell them that they might be ones that were born only so God could send them to hell and there isn't a darn thing they can do about it?
Can't answer can you?
New age, non-Reformed Christians have made Christianity extremely frivolous. They've reduced it all to arbitrary simplicity.
beloved57
Well-known member
False statements not found in the scriptures, those God called are Justified and Glorified Rom 8:28-30!
beloved57
Well-known member
Rabbit trail comment!
:freak:
God calls everyone to come to Christ. Not just "some certain persons".
Have you not heard that God loves the world, John 3:16.
beloved57
Well-known member
False statements!
Seekingtruth21
New member
I heard that God predestined the class of individuals (Christians). I personally like this view because there's a real interaction between two free agents, although one is divine and the other is human. What kind of a relationship controls a persons every move from the time they are born to the time they die? It sounds abusive to me. Imagine if you made a daily schedule for your love interest from the time they woke up to the time they went to sleep every day. That would get old for them wouldn't it? In Calvinism there is no real relationship between the two because love is a choice and a hard one to choose at times. It makes God the evil one. Mark Driscoll called it "Duck, duck, damn". Lol
Seekingtruth21
New member
Where does he say that?
I personally see free will and predestination co-existing a bit intellectually dishonest.
Reformed Christians aren't all the same- some believe in at least a vestige of free will, others don't.
Obviously, I'm one of those who don't. I don't feel that free will has any room in true predestination, but is rather an illusion.
Dialogos
Well-known member
People are predestined because in and of themselves they are not God seekers (see Romans 3:10-11). When Paul says that God was in Christ "reconciling the world unto himself (2 Cor 5:18-19)" he did not mean that every single person is already reconciled to God. Were he to have meant that, then everyone who has ever lived will be saved. Rather, what Paul meant was that God was in Christ reconciling humanity in general to himself. There will be people from every tribe, tongue and nation who have been reconciled to God.
World (Κοσμος) often means humanity in general as it does here.
However, Paul isn't contradicting himself, he has already said that the gospel is veiled to those who are perishing (2 Cor 4:3) and that the way one understands the gospel is through God's empowerment (shining His light in our hearts as 2 Cor 4:6 says).
Those who have the gospel veiled to them are not reconciled to God in any biblical sense of the definition of reconciled and the only way to receive the forgiveness of the cross is through the illumination of the Holy Spirit.
Other texts are clear that God has appointed some to receive that illumination, like Acts 13:48.
Then, you feel deprived of any free will in your life? You can't make
any decisions on your own? That's odd, cause I have that ability?
Maybe, you're just missing out? In fact, I've decided that I'm having
chili tonight. You, on the other hand cannot choose what you're having
for dinner. Therefore, you have to wait and see.
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