BRXII Battle talk

[PKevman]

Aethril,



Yes. It is a song. The Psalms were songs.

As I said:

The Psalms are in the Bible, which is the Word of God. They were inspired by God. The ridiculous song that Zadok posted is not even close to being equal with the Psalms which are part of God's Word.

Have a good day!

 

[ChasClean]

2 Peter 3:

6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.

The world was destroyed by a flood. It did not stay destroyed. It was Restored.


7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

We know the world was once destroyed and and restored. Why not these ungodly men? Are they not of much more value than the physical world?

11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

The world is going to be destroyed again and Restored.

God wants to make it clear. What He destroys, He can restore.

 

[ChasClean]

The Psalms are in the Bible, which is the Word of God. They were inspired by God. The ridiculous song that Zadok posted is not even close to being equal with the Psalms which are part of God's Word.

Have a good day!

Really! I thought I read "The Hornets" in the Bible somewhere. Are you sure? You are probably right.

I quess you had no answer for the remainder of my post. It was pretty long though so I see why you avoided it:

God can place anyone in situations so that their will WILL change.

If you take that ability away from Him, He is no longer God.

As I said:

Indissputable.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to post it once again.

Have a Better Day!

 

[bigbang123]

It contains much more than some. And not all of that truth is pleasent. Take the debate that this thread is based upon. The truth of the Bible is that there is a place that unbelievers go where God is not. It is described as a lake of fire which implies extreme discomfort. It is not a pleasant truth but it is true none the less.

wrong - according to the scriptures the biblegod is everywhere

Psalm 139:8 says, “If I make my bed in heaven, You are there. If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.”

You frequently make the point that God is a monster for sending billions of people to this hell. The fact of the matter is you do not know if that is a true statement or not. The Bible is silent regarding people who have never heard the word God. If it says nothing about a subject, what can you know about it? Nothing. You can and do (and you are not the only one to do this) infer much based on what you want to believe. But you don't know. None of us know.

The Bible is not written to the unbeliever, it is written to the believer. For those of us who believe, the Bible contans wisdom and truth and comfort and encouragement. For those who reject God, the Bible means nothing. Their hearts are closed to the truth.

The modern day world has turned God into the Great Big Teddy Bear of Love. A teddy Bear who would never dream of doing anything that we might find offensive. We have made God over in our image. When we are confronted with the Biblical truth that God is God and His wrath exists next to His love, we rebell. God is not a teddy bear, God is God. Holy and just by nature and not knowable to men. Jesus personified the grace and nercy of God and gives us a standard of care to live upto. Revelations lets us know that Gods patience has a limit and when the end times come, so does Gods wrath.

It is truth. I may not understand it all and there are parts of it I may not like or agree with. But it is truth that never changes and that I can always count on.

the bible supposedly speaks "truth" and truth is like the law of gravity and applies to everyone regardless of who has or has not ever opened a science book.

are you saying the bible "truths" (like, hell) only apply to the evangelized and not to the unevangelized?

if you believe that than "ignorance is bliss" and by not sharing the "gospel" with the unevangelized (some of whom will reject the message) you can spare the rejectors an eternity of torment - maybe.

otherwise - the charge you have issued against me stands

"You frequently make the point that God is a monster for sending billions of people to this hell."

the only change i would make to your charge is i would exchange the word "God" with the word "biblegod" so that people won't confuse your biblegod with the Creator of the Universe.

 

[Zadok]

The ridiculous song that Zadok posted is not even close to being equal with the Psalms which are part of God's Word.

Ah shucks, and here I thought the Hornets was inspired. :doh:

The Hornets

To the tune of This Is Like Heaven To Me

HERE

If a nest of live hornets were brought to this room
And the creatures allowed to go free,
You would not need urgings to make yourself scarce
You'd want to get out, don't you see.
They would not lay hold and by force of their strength
Throw you out of the window, oh no,
They would not compel you to go 'gainst your will
But they would just make you willing to go.

Chorus

He does not compel us to go, no, no
He does not compel us to go.
He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will
But he just makes us willing to go.

When the Canaanites hardened their hearts against God
And grieved Him because of their sin,
God sent along hornets to bring them to time
And help his own people to win.
The hornets persuaded them that it was best
To go quickly, and not to go slow:
God did not compel them to go 'gainst their will
But he just made them willing to go.

Chorus

He does not compel us to go, no, no
He does not compel us to go.
He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will
But he just makes us willing to go.

When Jonah was sent to the work of the Lord
The outlook was not very bright;
He had never done such a hard thing before
So he backed and ran off from the fight.
But God sent a big fish to swallow him up,
The story I'm sure you all know,
He did not compel him to go 'gainst his will
But he just made him willing to go.

Chorus

He does not compel us to go, no, no
He does not compel us to go.
He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will
But he just makes us willing to go.

When Moses was sent to lead Israel out
To Canaan's rich fruit-bearing land.
Resisting his spirit they worshipped a calf,
And refused to obey God's command.
God did not compel them to go to the land
Which with wine, milk, and honey did flow,
But fed them on manna for forty long years
'Till he got them ready to go.

Chorus

He does not compel us to go, no, no
He does not compel us to go.
He does not compel us to go against our will
But he just makes us willing to go.

When Balaam was sent to the Moabite kingd,
And wanted things run his own way,
His mule, ever faithful, spoke at the right time,
Made him willing God's will to obey.
God can use any man, since He used Balaam's mule,
For He is Almighty you know;
He does not compel us to go, 'against our will
But He just makes us willing to go.

Chorus

He does not compel us to go, no, no
He does not compel us to go.
He does not compel us to go against our will
But he just makes us willing to go.

 

[Zadok]

"You did not choose Me, I chose you!"

Sing it HERE

C.M. please lead the singing.

 

[red77]

The Psalms are in the Bible, which is the Word of God. They were inspired by God. The ridiculous song that Zadok posted is not even close to being equal with the Psalms which are part of God's Word.

Have a good day!

Hmm, i wouldnt have said it was a ridiculous song......but anyway, I realise you're a busy man and everything pastor but I would still appreciate a response to post #353 when you have time

And a good day to you as well

 

[CabinetMaker]

Then you're another who cant address the verse, the reason I believe that all men will be saved is because its what it says in the word....
"God is the saviour of all men, especially of those who believe", it doesnt say "only"...its a thorn in the side of ET because noone so far has been able to address this verse without twisting the definition of 'especially' or trying to just get rid of the word altogether, even PK couldnt manage this, you havent either........
whats more Jesus said he died as a ransom for all to be testified in due time, what you are on about with Jesus showing off if all are reconciled is beyond me, and how the heck is it 'pointless' if all men are redeemed? Bizarre.....it would make Jesus 100% successful in his mission and his sacrifice would have been far from pointless......
As to your own opinions about what people deserve in the afterlife if they arent saved here is one of the more sickening aspects of this doctrine you hold to, you'll justify endless agony for other people after believeing yourself to be spared the agonies........ :nono:



The story of the rich man was a parable, you read it literally and it makes no sense, if the rich man was literally burning and on fire do you seriously think he would ask Lazarus to dip his finger in water to cool his tongue????!!!! Do you think he'd capable of coherent speech at all and ot just screaming "AAAARRRRGGGHHHHH"......?! Yet again the message of this story about how beingf selfish and not compassionate towards those who have less is lost amidst all the literal hellfire preach..........
If you believe that God is incapable of or unwilling to save each person then its your perogative, I believe that ALL things are possible with God, that in the fullness of time all people will be ransomed as the testimony predicts, god knew that left to man it would be impossible for him - hence his answer to the disciples when they asked about who could be saved, you both believe that God cant accomplish his own will and that all things are in fact not possible for God....

Hey Red, you still haven't dealt witht he word destruction that is used to describe what happens to those who enter throught the wide gate.

 

[red77]

Hey Red, you still haven't dealt witht he word destruction that is used to describe what happens to those who enter throught the wide gate.

What?! i answered this to you twice now already CM!

 

[red77]

No reason to be crystal clear. Revelations is full of symbolism and it can be very difficult to tell the diference betweem allegory and literal.

Precisely the point, why is it then that the pastor is convinced that it is a literal lake of fire that unbelievers will be spending eternity in? Why arent you as sure as he is? Why is there no clarity on the subject which is as crucial as this.....

That having been said, there is a hell right now that is not the lake of fire. It is the hell of the old testament. That hell and physical death will be cast into the fire meaning that there will be no more use for either. The second death is never refered to as being cast into the lake. In fact the lake of fire is refered to as the second death from which there is no return. Whatever the lake turns out to be, real or literal, there is a place reserved by God for people who reject Him. He will honour their wishes and let them spend eternity without Him.

Hell isnt in the old testament......and if death is the last enemy to be destroyed then how can the 'second death' last throughout eternity? Either death is destroyed or it isnt.....

 

[CabinetMaker]

wrong - according to the scriptures the biblegod is everywhere

Psalm 139:8 says, “If I make my bed in heaven, You are there. If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.”

the bible supposedly speaks "truth" and truth is like the law of gravity and applies to everyone regardless of who has or has not ever opened a science book.

To a tribe living deep in the Amazon with no outside contact, who have never heard the gospel, will the they be measured by the same standard? I don't know. The Bible is silent on this issue. Believing that God is just and Holy and knowing that God has written His law upon their hearts (they are a law unto themselves), I believe that God will judge them accordingly.

In the developed world, things are different. The vast majority of people have heard of the Bible and at least have a passing knowledge of who Jesus is. Having heard, they are now on the hook for Jesus is knocking at the door of their hearts. Did they take time to listen or not?

are you saying the bible "truths" (like, hell) only apply to the evangelized and not to the unevangelized?

Again, I do not know, the Bible is silent. I tend to believe that my Amazon tribe is measured by a different standard than those who have heard the Gospel.

if you believe that than "ignorance is bliss" and by not sharing the "gospel" with the unevangelized (some of whom will reject the message) you can spare the rejectors an eternity of torment - maybe.

Here in my little corner of the world I would venture that everybody in America has heard the Gospel. My job is to be a good witness for what the Gospel has done for me so that they can also come to know Jesus. A great many christian cults today give Christianity a very bad reputation. Those who truely follow Jesus must work to overcome the evil spread by some so that people can understand the freedom and salvation that is theirs in Jesus.

Here in America there is no such thing of Biblical ignorance. There may be a great many people who are ignorant of the details, but a very very few who are ignorant of its existance. Once you know of its existance then I think you are aware that God has a plan and it is in your best interest to learn what it is.

"You frequently make the point that God is a monster for sending billions of people to this hell."

the only change i would make to your charge is i would exchange the word "God" with the word "biblegod" so that people won't confuse your biblegod with the Creator of the Universe.

The God of the Bible is the Creator of the Universe.

 

[PKevman]

Hmm, i wouldnt have said it was a ridiculous song......but anyway, I realise you're a busy man and everything pastor but I would still appreciate a response to post #353 when you have time

And a good day to you as well

I can only pop in and out briefly when I am at work. I will try to look at it later on at home, but quite frankly I am tired! I have spent about 10-12 hours preparing EACH of my posts, and owe my family some serious daddy time! You might see if I have answered it in the BR.

I have definitely gained a deeper appreciation for those who participated in past Battles.

God bless!

PK

 

[red77]

I can only pop in and out briefly when I am at work. I will try to look at it later on at home, but quite frankly I am tired! I have spent about 10-12 hours preparing EACH of my posts, and owe my family some serious daddy time! You might see if I have answered it in the BR.

I have definitely gained a deeper appreciation for those who participated in past Battles.

God bless!

PK

No problems pastor, I appreciate its been a very busy time and family must come first - as well as the time it must take to prepare posts for these battles.....
It was actually a segment of what you posted in the battle royale which I was addressing in that post, I hope you can answer at some point when things are a bit less hectic....!

 

[CabinetMaker]

Precisely the point, why is it then that the pastor is convinced that it is a literal lake of fire that unbelievers will be spending eternity in? Why arent you as sure as he is? Why is there no clarity on the subject which is as crucial as this.....

Yes, you answered this. As I recal, you said it means living on the outside. A unique definition of destruction, to be sure.

Hell isnt in the old testament......and if death is the last enemy to be destroyed then how can the 'second death' last throughout eternity? Either death is destroyed or it isnt.....

PHYSICAL death is cast into the lake. Remember that the lake of fire IS the second death and the lake is not destroyed.
Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

 

[red77]

Yes, you answered this. As I recal, you said it means living on the outside. A unique definition of destruction, to be sure.

Er....you recall wrong! I gave you a few examples and that wasnt one of them......
having said that eternal torment is just as unique a definition of destruction....not one you'll find in any dictionaries....

PHYSICAL death is cast into the lake. Remember that the lake of fire IS the second death and the lake is not destroyed.
Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

everything is consummated in the lake of fire including death.....and how can you throw 'physical' death into the lake, its metaphor.......

 

[PKevman]

To a tribe living deep in the Amazon with no outside contact, who have never heard the gospel, will the they be measured by the same standard? I don't know. The Bible is silent on this issue. Believing that God is just and Holy and knowing that God has written His law upon their hearts (they are a law unto themselves), I believe that God will judge them accordingly.

Again, I do not know, the Bible is silent. I tend to believe that my Amazon tribe is measured by a different standard than those who have heard the Gospel.

I actually answered this pretty clearly in my final post in the BR CM.

God bless you!

 

[Kimberlyann]

God is Love....Love is not just an attribute of God but that is what He is. If we could understand Love then we would have a better understanding of our Creator.


Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. (1Cr 13:4-8) NKJ

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Ro 5:8) NKJ

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (8:38-39) NKJ

Doubt everything before you doubt love.
Doubt the Bible before you doubt love.
Doubt yourself before you doubt love.
Doubt all that you believe to be God, before you doubt love.
Never doubt love.
God is love.

 

[CabinetMaker]

I actually answered this pretty clearly in my final post in the BR CM.

God bless you!

I would like to look at that in more detail. Can you tell me which post you addressed it in? (Sorry, but between Christmas and work I have had time only to scan the BR thread.)

 

[red77]

God is Love....Love is not just an attribute of God but that is what He is. If we could understand Love then we would have a better understanding of our Creator.


Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. (1Cr 13:4-8) NKJ

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Ro 5:8) NKJ

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (8:38-39) NKJ

:up:

absolutely, for eternal torment to be true then God's anger and wrath outweighs his love,
"love never fails"......either this is true or ET is true and its false
:think:

 

[bigbang123]

Originally Posted by CabinetMaker

To a tribe living deep in the Amazon with no outside contact, who have never heard the gospel, will the they be measured by the same standard? I don't know. The Bible is silent on this issue. Believing that God is just and Holy and knowing that God has written His law upon their hearts (they are a law unto themselves), I believe that God will judge them accordingly.

Again, I do not know, the Bible is silent. I tend to believe that my Amazon tribe is measured by a different standard than those who have heard the Gospel.

----------------------

I actually answered this pretty clearly in my final post in the BR CM.

God bless you!

yes, in terms of final punishment the bible does speaks of some getting many blows and some getting fewer blows - but if hell is forever, in real terms that means for some the eternal torment oven will be set on low and for some the eternal torment oven will be set on high.