Aimiel said:
Something just occured to me that I've never put into words before today... those who buy into universalism obviously (if they've read The Scriptures) aren't being honest with themselves, so why should anyone expect that they'd ever do otherwise with them? I believe that the first thread that I ever posted in on TOL was about the reality of hell, and I'd heard this even back then, and it keeps coming up in my spirit, but today I was able to put words to it. I remember the first argument I ever got into with anyone about The Bible (before I became Christian) was about the same subject. He said, "A 'loving' God wouldn't create hell." I said that if it is in The Bible it must be true. No one told me to say that. I was raised by atheist parents in a secular school and had un-belief swarming all around me. God gave me the faith to believe Him, and it will never die. His Words are Life and Spirit to those that find them.
Well, I'm sorry you think this.
Apparently, Christians such as William Law were not being honest with themselves, then.
here is what Law had to say in one of his books, "Affectionate and Earnest Address to the Clergy", :
[Addr-191] Love, goodness, and communication of good, is the immutable glory and perfection of the divine nature, and nothing can have union with God, but that which partakes of this goodness. The love that brought forth the existence of all things, changes not through the fall of its creatures, but is continually at work, to bring back all fallen nature and creature to their first state of goodness. All that passes for a time between God and his fallen creature, is but one and the same thing, working for one and the same end; and though this is called wrath, that called punishment, curse, and death, it is all from the beginning to the end, nothing but the work of the first creating love, and means nothing else, does nothing else, but those works of purifying fire, which must, and alone can burn away all that dark evil, which separates the creature from its first created union with God. God's providence, from the fall to the restitution of all things, is doing the same thing, as when he said to the dark chaos of fallen nature, "Let there be light"; he still says, and will continue saying the same thing, till there is no evil of darkness left in all that is nature and creature. God creating, God illuminating, God sanctifying, God threatening and punishing, God forgiving and redeeming, is but one and the same essential, immutable, never ceasing working of the divine nature. That in God which illuminates and glorifies saints and angels in heaven, is that very same working of the divine nature, which wounds, pains, punishes, and purifies sinners upon earth. And (N.B.) every number of destroyed sinners, whether thrown by Noah's flood, or Sodom's brimstone, into the terrible furnace of a life, insensible of anything but new forms of raging misery till judgment's day, must through the all -working, all- redeeming love of God, which never ceases, come at last to know that they had lost, and have found again such a God of love as this.
[Addr-192] And if long and long ages of fiery pain, and tormenting darkness, fall to the share of many, or most of God's apostate creatures, they will last no longer, than till the great fire of God has melted all arrogance into humility, and all that is SELF has died in the long agonies and bloody sweat of a lost God, which is that all-saving cross of Christ, which will never give up its redeeming power, till sin and sinners have no more a name among the creatures of God.
Once again, the accusation flies that those that believe that the Cross and the resurrection of Christ Jesus will succeed in saving mankind are somehow shallow in their faith and being dishonest with themselves and others. And the reason is simple, to cause people to doubt the outcome they believe in.
We are expected to bow down and let those accusations speak to those that hear it or read it without offering a rebuttle.
Well, this is very telling of how toxic the faith in eternal torment is, causing those that believe in it to level these statements against those that disagree with them as though their view must be accepted without question. You literally MUST accept their view...or else incure their contempt and their lies about your faith.
Who is really being dishonest under these conditions?
:nono:
