BRXII Battle talk

[logos_x]

GREAT!!

Now... back to the subject I've been trying to get you to address over the last 4 or 5 posts...

What is the first death?
What is the second death?

Why are there two?

What do people die to in the first death?
What do people die to in the second death?

For someone so willing to promote his ideas on the lake of fire it seems you would be more than willing to discuss what death actually is and how it effects us.

They are dead. They are not alive.
How it affects us is we are not alive. We are dead.

 

[Nineveh]

They are dead. They are not alive.
How it affects us is we are not alive. We are dead.

Pathetic.

 

[logos_x]

Pathetic.

What...you believe "we shall not surely die" ?

 

[Nineveh]

What...you believe "we shall not surely die" ?

It's pathetic because you fight so hard about something you obviously know nothing about.

 

[logos_x]

It's pathetic because you fight so hard about something you obviously know nothing about.

Nin, it is you that is fighting the fact that death is really death.
Something of us must remain alive, right? People don't really die...do they?

It is you that has swallowed the serpent's deception. Death isn't really death...we live on, regardless. Man IS immortal, without any help from God at all.

That is what I've been fighting the whole time.

The innate immortality of the human soul IS "you will not surely die", and the doctrine of eternal torment is taking that doctrine to it's "logical" conclusion.

Now, if you can explain "death" without the serpent being "right" about it, and still end up with "eternal torment", you would be the very first to do so.

So, tell me what you think death is...and I'll tell you if you are right or wrong.

 

[Nineveh]

Nin, it is you that is fighting the fact that death is really death.
Something of us must remain alive, right? People don't really die...do they?

It is you that has swallowed the serpent's deception. Death isn't really death...we live on, regardless. Man IS immortal, without any help from God at all.

That is what I've been fighting the whole time.

The innate immortality of the human soul IS "you will not surely die", and the doctrine of eternal torment is taking that doctrine to it's "logical" conclusion.

:blabla:

Anyway, you want people to take you seriously about the lake of fire, but you have completely ignored the question of death for what now? 6 or 7 times? If you are in dave's pit of "no one really knows" it is possible to climb out. But please spare me your redirects in lieu of a serious discussion on the topic.

 

[logos_x]

:blabla:

Anyway, you want people to take you seriously about the lake of fire, but you have completely ignored the question of death for what now? 6 or 7 times? If you are in dave's pit of "no one really knows" it is possible to climb out. But please spare me your redirects in lieu of a serious discussion on the topic.

Nin...I've answered it each time and have ignored nothing.

Dead IS dead...end of story.

Now...if you have another answer where dead is not dead, then the serpent was right when he said we won't die.

Like I said, hardly anyone believes people die these days.

 

[Nineveh]

Nin...I've answered it each time and have ignored nothing.

You haven't even tried, unless you consider my questions an occasion to go on about your pet theology. I asked you many times about death on a theology site no less and you expect me to accept "they are dead" for an answer? Really? It's as if you can't even read the questions I am repeatedly asking you.

Dead IS dead...end of story.

Now...if you have another answer where dead is not dead, then the serpent was right when he said we won't die.

Like I said, hardly anyone believes people die these days.

Like I said. This is nothig but pathetic. You want to be a scholar on the Second Death but you don't seem to understand much about death at all. Maybe it's just that you can't get outside of your pet theology long enough to address my questions.

 

[Aimiel]

But please spare me your redirects in lieu of a serious discussion on the topic.

He has to run, because if he were to face the logic he constantly appeals to others with the verses of proof-text he throws at us he'd have to admit the truth, that the second death isn't correction and doesn't have anything to do with salvation at all. :baby:

 

[logos_x]

You haven't even tried, unless you consider my questions an occasion to go on about your pet theology. I asked you many times about death on a theology site no less and you expect me to accept "they are dead" for an answer? Really? It's as if you can't even read the questions I am repeatedly asking you.



Like I said. This is nothig but pathetic. You want to be a scholar on the Second Death but you don't seem to understand much about death at all. Maybe it's just that you can't get outside of your pet theology long enough to address my questions.

Alright Nin...What you want is for me to accept that we don't die.
I think God said we will, but someone else said we won't. So what you are saying is that I must accept that we don't die, or I don't know what I'm talking about and I'm running from the "truth" that we don't die...which is the sepent's lie to begin with.

So...what you are saying is this: In order to believe in the "truth" of eternal torment, you have to believe we don't really die...which is what the serpent said, NOT God.

There we have it.

Thank you.

 

[PKevman]

So...what you are saying is this: In order to believe in the "truth" of eternal torment, you have to believe we don't really die...which is what the serpent said, NOT God.

There we have it.

Thank you.

That's funny, I sure never have seen that from anything Nin has said.

 

[logos_x]

That's funny, I sure never have seen that from anything Nin has said.

That's the problem.

 

[PKevman]

That's the problem.

Yes it is that indeed the problem. Your deception leads you to completely misquote someone instead of dealing with their beliefs directly. By the way, how about those verses that say that the "Salvation of all" is the Gospel? Still haven't seen them.

 

[Nineveh]

Alright Nin...What you want...

Is for logos to answer these questions:

What is the first death?
What is the second death?

Why are there two?

What do people die to in the first death?
What do people die to in the second death?

...is for me to accept that we don't die.
I think God said we will, but someone else said we won't. So what you are saying is that I must accept that we don't die, or I don't know what I'm talking about and I'm running from the "truth" that we don't die...which is the sepent's lie to begin with.

So...what you are saying is this: In order to believe in the "truth" of eternal torment, you have to believe we don't really die...which is what the serpent said, NOT God.

There we have it.

Thank you.

logos, all I want is your best Biblically referenced answers to those questions. I don't want to talk about your view of the lake right now, please. Maybe later. But first I want to understand what you know about the questions I asked.

 

[red77]

He has to run, because if he were to face the logic he constantly appeals to others with the verses of proof-text he throws at us he'd have to admit the truth, that the second death isn't correction and doesn't have anything to do with salvation at all. :baby:

if there's one person on this thread who hasnt run or shied away from anything its Logos X IMO - as well as the most patience, all you've had on this thread lately is ad hominems and putdowns, telling......

 

[Balder]

Is for logos to answer these questions:

What is the first death?
What is the second death?

Why are there two?

What do people die to in the first death?
What do people die to in the second death?

For your amusement, Nineveh, I'll answer these questions:

The first death is the death of the body, which is the impersonal, "collective" bearer of the consequences of Adam's sin (e.g., death, human physical mortality).

If you die to yourself while living, meaning a spiritual death to selfishness and self-power which opens the door to rebirth in the Spirit, then you do not need to undergo the second death after judgment because you've already died to yourself. However, if you die physically without also dying in this deeper way, then you still have the second death before you. You still must consciously and willingly die to self in order to live in Spirit. People who have not died to themselves live in outer darkness until they realize the error of their ways and allow themselves to be purified by God's redemptive flame.

 

[Nineveh]

For your amusement, Nineveh, I'll answer these questions:

The first death is the death of the body, which is the impersonal, "collective" bearer of the consequences of Adam's sin (e.g., death, human physical mortality).

If you die to yourself while living, meaning a spiritual death to selfishness and self-power which opens the door to rebirth in the Spirit, then you do not need to undergo the second death after judgment because you've already died to yourself. However, if you die physically without also dying in this deeper way, then you still have the second death before you. You still must consciously and willingly die to self in order to live in Spirit. People who have not died to themselves live in outer darkness until they realize the error of their ways and allow themselves to be purified by God's redemptive flame.

You got some of it sorta right. Let's see how logos fares, if he bothers.

 

[Silk Queen]

Sounds like a reasonable interpretation to me.

Do you believe in bodily resurrection?

Hi Dave..
This is how I understand scriptures concerning the bodily resurrection.

At death one's spirit returns to God, but it has no consciousness.
The consciousness is in the soul.
Man is a living soul, when he dies he is a dead soul.
The soul is not sleeping but Death is.
When resurrected it is a spiritual body I Cor. 15:42-54

 

[Aimiel]

Jesus said that whoever believes in Him will never see death, and Paul told us that to be absent from the body is to be present with The Lord. Soul sleep isn't scriptural.

 

[logos_x]

Is for logos to answer these questions:

What is the first death?

Death. The body goes to the dust, the spirit returns to God.
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
(Ecc 12:7 KJV)

What is the second death?

The second death is also death. The body goes to the dust, the spirit returns to God.
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
(Ecc 12:7 KJVR)

Why are there two?

Everyone goes through death.

Some suffer second death after resurrection and judgment.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing in front of the throne. And books were opened; and so was another book--namely, the Book of Life; and the dead were judged by the things recorded in the books in accordance with what their conduct had been. Then the sea yielded up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades yielded up the dead who were in them, and each man was judged in accordance with what his conduct had been. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of fire; this is the Second Death--the Lake of fire. And if any one's name was not found recorded in the Book of Life he was thrown into the Lake of fire.
(Rev 20:12-15 WNT)






Later, all death is overcome. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
(1Co 15:26 KJVR)

What do people die to in the first death?

They die to this world

What do people die to in the second death?

They die again to this world

logos, all I want is your best Biblically referenced answers to those questions. I don't want to talk about your view of the lake right now, please. Maybe later. But first I want to understand what you know about the questions I asked.

Ok.