Once again you have failed to show a verse that gives any indication that the salvation of all is the Gospel. Nowhere in the Bible where the Gospel is referred to does it say that it means the salvation of all. You have repeatedly ignored Paul's definition of what the Gospel is when he clearly gives a definition for it and it has nothing to do with the salvation of all. But I guess it is easier to ignore something that refutes your position than to discuss it.
Wrong Paul is addressing Christians in the text, and that is the YOU he is referring to when he says it is by grace YOU have been saved THROUGH faith. Paul did not assert that faith is a result of grace, this is a gross misstatement. Faith is something that is the result of a choice. If I go to sit in a chair I am putting my faith in the chair to hold me up. I made the choice. God doesn't MAKE us choose Him no matter how much you try to say He does your assertions do not match up with Scripture.
The meaning of it by saying it says faith is a gift of God when it is salvation that is the gift. Paul is not saying in that text that faith is the gift of God and not of works so that no man can boast. That is why you have distorted the meaning. If faith is the gift of God mentioned in the text, then why does he also say it is not by works so that no man can boast?
In fact here is the verse in context and any rational person who is not looking to fit their own theologies into can understand exactly what the Apostle is saying:
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
By grace we are saved, Stephen. Not by works because works cannot save us. That is why we can assert very clearly that salvation is the gift of God that Paul is talking about here, the grace shown by God in granting us salvation! We are saved through faith and not through works. This is why I said you along with the Universalists have distorted what these verses say, and once again have pulled them out of context and tried to bend them to make them mean what you want them to mean.
By the way, you still have not shown a single verse that says that the salvation of all is the Gospel. Want to try again?
Actually this particular text doesn't talk about the punishment of the wicked, that is dealt with in other verses very plainly. It certainly doesn't say anything about the "salvation of all" being the Gospel. And while we ARE clearly given verses which indicate that unbelievers will be cast into the Lake of Fire with THAT EXACT WORDING, we are NOT given any verses that clearly state the salvation of all is the Gospel, which is what you have asserted and been trying for several pages to prove. You will never, EVER show a verse that says that the salvation of all is the Gospel, because no such verse exists in the Word of God.
I agree wholeheartedly with you that Paul was addressing the church in Ephesus and by extension all of the church. My point is what he says is directed to people who are saved (i.e. the church in Ephesus and by extension all of the church): By grace YOU have been saved. The YOU is Christians, not everyone who has ever lived or ever will live. So now you admit that Paul was addressing only believers in Jesus Christ right? So then why do you try to change the context to mean that God saves all?
Ephesians 2:8-9 again:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
You misquoted Romans 12:3 out of context was my point, Stephen. Paul is again addressing BRETHREN in that text and telling them not to think more highly of themselves than they ought to. Nowhere in that text does it say that God will give faith to everyone who has ever lived.
Here are the verses again:
Romans 12:1-8
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. 3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. 6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7 or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; 8 he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.
Clearly in the text he is talking about the fact that each person in the body has different gifts and abilities given by God.
Stephen, Please show where in the text in Romans 12:3 it indicates that God has given or will give faith to everyone who has ever lived or ever will live? That is exactly what you were trying to assert when you quoted it the first time!
no. I'll let you say that. You are the one twisting yourself into theological mumbo jumbo man!
What is true is that Universalists have pulled certain verses out of context and tried to make them mean things that they do not mean. That is why you are having a difficult time of making sense of some of them!
No. It was that dealing that gave them spiritual gifts in the context of the text. Read it again and if you are not being completely close-minded you will see that is true. God dealt each of the BRETHREN a spiritual gift is what that text is talking about when you break it down and look at it. I mean LOOK AT VERSE #4!!!
"For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function,"
It makes perfect sense when you put that statement in context with the fact that God has given each of the brethren a MEASURE of faith! Why do you think the word measure was thrown in there? To show the differences in the gifts!
Some Christians have a deeper faith than others. I know people who have completely abandoned everything they owned and went halfway around the world to preach the Gospel, trusting in God for their every need to be met. THAT is a different kind of faith than many Christians have. Each of the BRETHREN is called to exercise their spiritual gifts according to the MEASURE of faith that has been given to them by the Lord.
