Bought and Washed, NOT Predestinated

[nikolai_42]

The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ and be saved, Hebrews 3:15 also Revelation 3:20.

That doesn't answer the question...do all REALLY hear?

And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Mark 4:11-12

 

[Puppet]

Tambora one time asked a Calvinist:
Do you tell your children when you put them to bed that God loves them?
Or do you tell them that they might be ones that were born only so God could send them to hell and there isn't a darn thing they can do about it?

No answer given.

It's like Halloween. Tell the children Freddy isn't going to get them and yet the fearless children die in gruesome murders.

Why lie to children to make then less afraid. Tell them the team truth, the tulip

 

[Robert Pate]

Trying to be respectful here, but these statements are one of the reasons why a systematic theology is so important. Reformed find that in many resources, including but not limited to it's Creeds and Confessions.

Creeds and confessions are worthless.

All that we need is the Bible. the Bible is a witness for Christ and his Gospel.

All that we need is the Gospel, plus NOTHING.

When we accept Christ as our savior we receive all that there is to receive. We are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

 

[nikolai_42]

The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ and be saved, Hebrews 3:15 also Revelation 3:20.

When someone preaches against sin and how it brings God's judgment, what is the implication? Is it "Stop sinning or else!" or is it "You have no hope in yourself!"? To the one who doesn't hear, if either one of these messages hits home, it's the former - and that person will try and earn his way to heaven. But to the one who hears, the former sinks in and that person turns to Christ. But do they do so because they choose to? No. It's because the Holy Spirit was working in them as you quote in those verses. They aren't forced, but just as the sleepwalker who awakes to find himself stepping over a cliff, the sinner doesn't need to be convinced of his situation - he can't save himself. All that is the work of God. He wakens the sinner and shows him his situation and then saves them as they call out to Him. For if they TRULY see and hear, they will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they can do nothing of themselves and only He can save them. But even that is a work of His Spirit.

EDIT : In summary, the opening of the eyes and ears reveals the truth and there is no need to convince that person (who has been so enlightened) to believe. All this is of God.

 

[Robert Pate]

It's like Halloween. Tell the children Freddy isn't going to get them and yet the fearless children die in gruesome murders.

Why lie to children to make then less afraid. Tell them the team truth, the tulip

TULIP is a horror story.

The "L" is a declaration by God that his Son Jesus Christ is a liar and a failure. Don't trust in him or believe him. Thats the message of Calvinism.

 

[Robert Pate]

When someone preaches against sin and how it brings God's judgment, what is the implication? Is it "Stop sinning or else!" or is it "You have no hope in yourself!"? To the one who doesn't hear, if either one of these messages hits home, it's the former - and that person will try and earn his way to heaven. But to the one who hears, the former sinks in and that person turns to Christ. But do they do so because they choose to? No. It's because the Holy Spirit was working in them as you quote in those verses. They aren't forced, but just as the sleepwalker who awakes to find himself stepping over a cliff, the sinner doesn't need to be convinced of his situation - he can't save himself. All that is the work of God. He wakens the sinner and shows him his situation and then saves them as they call out to Him. For if they TRULY see and hear, they will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they can do nothing of themselves and only He can save them. But even that is a work of His Spirit.

EDIT : In summary, the opening of the eyes and ears reveals the truth and there is no need to convince that person (who has been so enlightened) to believe. All this is of God.

The Holy Spirit prompts people to come to Christ. He can be resisted by the human will. I rejected the call of the Holy Spirit for years. The Gospel calls for a responce. If one hears that Christ died on the cross for their sins and does nothing, that is a responce.

Little children come to know Christ as their savior because they have not become sophisticated by the world.

 

[nikolai_42]

The Holy Spirit prompts people to come to Christ. He can be resisted by the human will. I rejected the call of the Holy Spirit for years. The Gospel calls for a responce. If one hears that Christ died on the cross for their sins and does nothing, that is a responce.

You also testified that, when you came to Him, that you said "I can't resist". Even so, those that resist are still blinded. The Lord has not opened their eyes and ears.

Little children come to know Christ as their savior because they have not become sophisticated by the world.

 

[beloved57]

The Holy Spirit prompts people to come to Christ. He can be resisted by the human will. I rejected the call of the Holy Spirit for years. The Gospel calls for a responce. If one hears that Christ died on the cross for their sins and does nothing, that is a responce.

Little children come to know Christ as their savior because they have not become sophisticated by the world.

False Teaching !

You still reject the Gospel ! Calvinism is the Gospel, dont you reject it ? Yes or No ?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

False Teaching !

You still reject the Gospel ! Calvinism is the Gospel, dont you reject it ? Yes or No ?

The simple conclusion is, Pate is right and B57 is wrong. Everyone
knows B57 is wrong except B57 and Nanja.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

No, faith to believe is the results of hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

Amen

 

[heir]

Tambora one time asked a Calvinist:
Do you tell your children when you put them to bed that God loves them?
Or do you tell them that they might be ones that were born only so God could send them to hell and there isn't a darn thing they can do about it?

No answer given.

I often ask those who are Calvinists when was there ever a moment in their life when they trusted the Lord AFTER hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation and get the same response.

 

[heir]

Christians teach their children the Gospel of Jesus Christ through the Canon of Scripture.

Which gospel?

 

[heir]

And what if God doesn't know who will believe?

The scripture says he does. That's good enough for me. Why do you fight that those whom God foreknew, He predestinated? It's right there in Romans 8 and elsewhere.

And just so you know, my question has zero, nada, zilch to do with Calvinism.

 

[beloved57]

Creeds and confessions are worthless.

All that we need is the Bible. the Bible is a witness for Christ and his Gospel.

All that we need is the Gospel, plus NOTHING.

When we accept Christ as our savior we receive all that there is to receive. We are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

You don't believe the Gospel!

 

[ttruscott]

Predestined to be bought and washed...

 

[Robert Pate]

You also testified that, when you came to Him, that you said "I can't resist". Even so, those that resist are still blinded. The Lord has not opened their eyes and ears.

The call was very strong, but I believe that I could have resisted.

He that so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son and is not willing that any should perish is long-suffering towards the lost.

You have a wrong view of the nature and character of God.

 

[Robert Pate]

The scripture says he does. That's good enough for me. Why do you fight that those whom God foreknew, He predestinated? It's right there in Romans 8 and elsewhere.

And just so you know, my question has zero, nada, zilch to do with Calvinism.

There is no scripture that says God has predestinated anyone to salvation.

 

[Robert Pate]

Predestined to be bought and washed...

There is no scripture that says God has predestinated anyone to salvation.

 

[heir]

There is no scripture that says God has predestinated anyone to salvation.

We've been over this before and you still aren't listening. Those to whom God foreknew would believe (that being our gospel 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) are predestinated. It doesn't say He "made us know" which is what you insist on attaching to anyone (like me) who says we are predestinated as you see Calvin whenever that word is brought up even though it's a very good, sound, biblical word.

God having foreknowledge (having knowledge of beforehand) of who would and will believe ("according as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world") and predestinating them (us) has everything to do with our adoption ("unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of his will").

 

[Robert Pate]

We've been over this before and you still aren't listening. Those to whom God foreknew would believe (that being our gospel 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) are predestinated. It doesn't say He "made us know" which is what you insist on attaching to anyone (like me) who says we are predestinated as you see Calvin whenever that word is brought up even though it's a very good, sound, biblical word.

God having foreknowledge (having knowledge of beforehand) of who would and will believe ("according as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world") and predestinating them (us) has everything to do with our adoption ("unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of his will").

God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:4.

We know this to be true because God reconciled the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

The word "Forknew" or "Forknowledge" does not necessarily mean that God knows ahead of time who will accept his Son Jesus Christ.

What it means is that God has forknowledge that some will believe on his Son Jesus Christ and be conformed to his image. Who the some are remains to be seen.