Bought and Washed, NOT Predestinated

R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Before anything happens to the Christian, he must be bought by Christ and washed in his blood.

"For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's" 1 Corinthians 6:20.

"Forasmuch as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptable things, as silver and gold, but with the precious blood of Christ" 1 Peter 1:18, 19.

This idea that God runs people around Jesus Christ and predestinates them to salvation by declaring them saved, is not in the Bible and is not according to the Gospel.

God does NOTHING outside of his Son Jesus Christ.

All things are done through Jesus Christ, "He is before ALL THINGS and by him all things consist" Colossians 1:17.

Before anyone can be saved they must come to Christ as a repentant sinners. "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13. If you are to proud to call on Christ to save you, you are not saved.

All that have come to Christ to be saved by him are then sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. After you are sealed with the Holy Spirit God places you "In Christ", Colossians 3:3. God doesn't see you anymore, he can only see you in Christ.

if you believe that God saves you WITHOUT Christ by predestinating you to salvation, you are sadly mistaken.
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Robert Pate said:
if you believe that God saves you WITHOUT Christ by predestinating you to salvation, you are sadly mistaken.
Click to expand...

Do you get paid by the repetitive threads you start? Just wondering.

And I know of no Reformed folk who would believe what you are saying. Are you aware of any who do hold this view?
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Robert Pate said:
Before anything happens to the Christian, he must be bought by Christ and washed in his blood.

"For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's" 1 Corinthians 6:20.

"Forasmuch as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptable things, as silver and gold, but with the precious blood of Christ" 1 Peter 1:18, 19.

This idea that God runs people around Jesus Christ and predestinates them to salvation by declaring them saved, is not in the Bible and is not according to the Gospel.

God does NOTHING outside of his Son Jesus Christ.

All things are done through Jesus Christ, "He is before ALL THINGS and by him all things consist" Colossians 1:17.

Before anyone can be saved they must come to Christ as a repentant sinners. "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13. If you are to proud to call on Christ to save you, you are not saved.

All that have come to Christ to be saved by him are then sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. After you are sealed with the Holy Spirit God places you "In Christ", Colossians 3:3. God doesn't see you anymore, he can only see you in Christ.

if you believe that God saves you WITHOUT Christ by predestinating you to salvation, you are sadly mistaken.
Click to expand...
I don't believe the hijacked Calvinistic version of predestination, but I do believe in the biblical one. The one that states:

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

...

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: ( see Rom 8:28-30 )

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Ephesians 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

God foreknowing who would believe and predestinating all of them to the above is scriptural.
 
Ask Mr. Religion

Ask Mr. Religion

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heir said:
Beloved 57
Click to expand...
No.

B57 is not "Reformed folk" as was stated as the qualifier. Rather, b57 is but one of the vocal minority of heretics known as hyper-Calvinists.


All Reformed are Calvinists.
Not all Calvinists are Reformed.​

Quite plainly, a Calvinist is someone who affirms the doctrines of grace commonly defined by the acrostic, TULIP. In general, the word Reformed means those that affirm—without taking major scruples—one of the historical confessions of the Reformation era (Second Helvetic Confession, the Belgic Confession, the Heidelberg Catechism or the Westminster Standards), all of which which necessarily includes the doctrines of grace as well as specifics related to church polity, principles of worship, baptism, and much more.

AMR
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
heir said:
Beloved 57
Click to expand...

It should be obvious that B57 is somewhat different from most of the Calvinists here.

I am not sure that even B57 would agree with Mr Pate here as written. At any rate, to rail at all Calvinists on the basis of what one errant person might or might not hold is hardly legitimate.

Basically at this time, Mr Pate makes up stuff about what Calvinists believe and runs with it, even after he has been repeatedly informed of his error.
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Brother Ducky said:
It should be obvious that B57 is somewhat different from most of the Calvinists here.

I am not sure that even B57 would agree with Mr Pate here as written. At any rate, to rail at all Calvinists on the basis of what one errant person might or might not hold is hardly legitimate.

Basically at this time, Mr Pate makes up stuff about what Calvinists believe and runs with it, even after he has been repeatedly informed of his error.
Click to expand...

who speaks for the calvinists?
in a coherent manner
is there any common agreement?
 
lifeisgood

lifeisgood

New member
Tambora one time asked a Calvinist:
Do you tell your children when you put them to bed that God loves them?
Or do you tell them that they might be ones that were born only so God could send them to hell and there isn't a darn thing they can do about it?

No answer given.
 
Cedarbay

Cedarbay

New member
lifeisgood said:
Tambora one time asked a Calvinist:
Do you tell your children when you put them to bed that God loves them?
Or do you tell them that they might be ones that were born only so God could send them to hell and there isn't a darn thing they can do about it?

No answer given.
Click to expand...
Christians teach their children the Gospel of Jesus Christ through the Canon of Scripture.

The added blessing Reformed have are the Creeds and Confessions of the Christian Church. Here are some of the historical truths we pass on to our kids.

http://www.reformed.org/documents/

Please take a look at an oft overlooked creed, The Athanasian Creed, which is precise doctrine of the Holy Trinity and the Person of Christ.
 
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R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Brother Ducky said:
Do you get paid by the repetitive threads you start? Just wondering.

And I know of no Reformed folk who would believe what you are saying. Are you aware of any who do hold this view?
Click to expand...

If you are not trusting in predestinationism or Calvinism, then why do you still embrace it?
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
heir said:
I don't believe the hijacked Calvinistic version of predestination, but I do believe in the biblical one. The one that states:

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

...

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: ( see Rom 8:28-30 )

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Ephesians 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

God foreknowing who would believe and predestinating all of them to the above is scriptural.
Click to expand...


And what if God doesn't know who will believe?

The angels in heaven apparently don't know who will believe, Luke 15:7 also Luke 15:10.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Cedarbay said:
Christians teach their children the Gospel of Jesus Christ through the Canon of Scripture.

The added blessing Reformed have are the Creeds and Confessions of the Christian Church. Here are some of the historical truths we pass on to our kids.

http://www.reformed.org/documents/

Please take a look at an often forgotten creed, The Athanasian Creed, which is precise doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
Click to expand...


What you are passing on to your children is religion.
 
Cedarbay

Cedarbay

New member
Robert Pate said:
What you are passing on to your children is religion.
Click to expand...
Religion seems to be a dirty word for you.

According to wiki - religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning of life, the origin of life. A collection of beliefs and cultural systems.

So, according to this definition, Christianity is a religion.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Cedarbay said:
Religion seems to be a dirty word for you.

According to wiki - religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning of life, the origin of life. A collection of beliefs and cultural systems.

So, according to this definition, Christianity is a religion.
Click to expand...


Religion is basically anti-Christ.

Religious people are preoccupied with themselves, who is a sinner.

Their works, Their obedience, Their piety.

The Gospel is about Jesus Christ, His works, His obedience, His piety.

Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
 
Cedarbay

Cedarbay

New member
Robert Pate said:
Religion is basically anti-Christ.

Religious people are preoccupied with themselves, who is a sinner.

Their works, Their obedience, Their piety.

The Gospel is about Jesus Christ, His works, His obedience, His piety.

Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Click to expand...
The Creeds are centered on Christ. Worship is centered on Christ. Doctrine is centered on Christ.

I agree with you about the Gospel. I also agree that Christ alone saves.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Cedarbay said:
You've said this a few times. Can you clarify this?
Click to expand...

God can limit himself.

When Jesus returns the saved will be identified by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In the judgment it says that the books were opened to see who's name is written in the book of life, Revelation 20:12, 15.

Doesn't God know? Why is there a book?

Luke 15:10 says that the angels in heaven rejoice over one sinner that repents. Didn't they know ahead of time who that sinner was?
 
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