BATTLE TALK ~ BRX (rounds 1 thru 3)

[Leonard A]

Oy vay. Leo, what is the context of Genesis one? Just a guess, but I believe it is Creation!

God is referring to "Day 1" of ... what? Creation!

That really isn't hard to understand...

Pleae refer to my advise to SmileyGuy.

Stop and Consider.

Leonard A.

 

[Shalom]

Here's one.

Ge 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

NOTE: This is day one. It is a cardinal number. The following days are ordinal (e.g., second not two, third not three, etc.) Do the research.

As I said the Word of God is knowable. However, the Bible is not a lazy man's book.

Stop and Consider

Leonard A.

After stopping and considering......This does not prove to me that God created time.

 

[Leonard A]

Paul is warning us against Calvanism in this verse (just kidding) Consider and stop.


Do you believe anyone who is not Calvanist is not a Christian? Consider then stop, then go a little, stop again, and consider.


Contrary to what baseline? What made Calvanism the baseline? Stop, then move forward a tiny bit, then consider, then eat a sandwhich, then consider some more, then stop again, repeat if necessary.


The future, since it hasn't happened yet, is not knowable. For instance, God doesn't know the color of the Easter Bunny's eyes, since the Easter Bunny doesn't exist. Does that limit God? Carefully consider, then even more carefully stop, move to the right, then consider some more, throw salt over your shoulder, and stop again.


What is serious is your idea that if people aren't Calvanist, then they aren't Christian. Only consider this one, no stopping needed.


Revelation 8:1
1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. NKJV

Hmmm . . . a half an hour in heaven? God is constrained by time?

Hebrews 10:13
13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. NKJV

God is waiting for something?

Tell me where in the Bible did God create time? Time isn't a thing.

This time consider, then stop, then tilt your head to the left, consider some more, move a little forward, stop agian, consider, then run foward really fast, come to a sudden stop, and consider.

This is suppose to be a serious forum. Please do not lower its standards by your childess antics. Save the space for those individuals who are sincere.

Are you fimiliar with a person by the name of Tony Yepp? He is a Universalist. He uses the same method of sacasim. This does not impress me.

Stop and Consider.

Leoanrd A.

 

[Shalom]

Oy vay. Leo, what is the context of Genesis one? Just a guess, but I believe it is Creation!

God is referring to "Day 1" of ... what? Creation!

That really isn't hard to understand...

I think RightIdea has the right idea here.......

 

[Leonard A]

This is suppose to be a serious forum. Please do not lower its standards by your childess antics. Save the space for those individuals who are sincere.

Are you fimiliar with a person by the name of Tony Yepp? He is a Universalist. He uses the same method of sacasim. This does not impress me.

Stop and Consider.

Leoanrd A.

Just of the record. I misspelt sarcasm.

Leonard A.

 

[GuySmiley]

This is suppose to be a serious forum. Please do not lower its standards by your childess antics. Save the space for those individuals who are sincere.

I appologize, I just finished reading a bunch of Billy Bob posts and I was inspired.

 

[Rimi]

Guy, I can't good rep you yet.

 

[Leonard A]

I think RightIdea has the right idea here.......

Just a quick note. If one was ordinal, than it is the first day is the series of creation and your proposition would be correct. However, it is not. Hope this get you on the right track.

Stop and Consider.

Leonard A.

 

[GuySmiley]

Please do some more research and reply.

While I'm researching, could you respond to post #774 or RightIdea's post #775 about how the truth you say was rejected refers to Open View or Calvanism, or any of the positions RightIdea mentioned? Your view of Christianity is very narrow, and if you really believe your own logic, you better hope you aren't wrong on any minor issue.

 

[RightIdea]

You are preaching the "gospel of works" by have the faith of the individual as the foundation of their acceptance. You are using the work of the Holy Spirit in the true believer as the foundation of their acceptance. Your are confusing the Second and Third Persons' work. Are you Catholic?

The basis of the true believer's acceptance is nothing less and nothing more than the person and work of Christ.

Ro 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Ro 5:1 ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:


Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Ro 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Ro 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

These individuals that I referred to never truly believed. Look at my reference to Judas. Unless you believe in Universal Reconciliation were even Satan's comes into the fold of God.

BRIEF NOTE: There is the work of the Holy Spirit that takes place in all true believers. This is another topic.

Stop and Consider.

Leonard A.

Wait a minute.... By professing salvation by faith alone.... I'm preaching a gospel of works????? Wha...???

Can someone please explain this to me?

 

[elected4ever]

The idea that God created time is silly and self-contradictory on its face. I'm never short of amazed how consistently atemporalists describe God in temporal terms.

For God to "create" time, then from God's perspective, there was no time, and then there was time. Before and after. How can God have existed "before time?" How can He "create time" if He cannot commit any action at all? To commit an action denotes a change. Change denotes before-and-after, and chronology, all of which absolutely require time. God by logical necessity has always experienced time. It is a characteristic of existence. The atemporal God is an impotent and deist God, necessarily. An atemporal God cannot do anything because to do something would denote change, before-and-after, chronology... time!

This is a good example of the narrowness of your view. Sense time is implemented for the benefit of man and not God you seem to think that God did not create the things used by men to measure his existence. God has existed through out all eternity in which the measurement of existence (time) exist. There was no need for any reference point for existence before creation. Time is measured from event to event. That is why one cannot say with all certainty that creation took a literal 24 hr day. It may have or it may not have because the first reference to a measured time, in this case day, was measured from event to event. From darkness and chaos to order. There were no cholesterol bodies such as the moon and the sun to measure by like we have today. But be that as it may it is a topic of another discussion and not this one.

I said the foregoing in order to say the following.

Does God in the scriptures appear as to be interacting with man and making decisions spontaneously? Yes he does. Why? For our learning.

Does this seemingly spontaneous reaction of God demonstrate that God did not know before the event? No it does not demonstrate that.

Then what does it demonstrate? It demonstrates that God is actively implementing the plan that he made before the foundation of the world.

Could anything have been done differently than what was done in order for the plan to be successful? No. Why? Because man had the freedom to choose or reject the plan.

Then just what is the plan? First, to create a creature in form and function that had the ability to communicate and and have fellowship with God. Second, To transform, for like of a better word, a created creature into his express image and Divine nature and that they should live with him forever.

That is God's will for all mankind but all mankind does not wont the will of God and wonts His own way and through freedom of choice chooses against the planed will that God has. for him.

Everything and I mean everything concerning the implementation of the plane of God was foreknown of God and yes God ordained it to be so before the world was. Sense the freedom of choice is part of the plan of God, God does not violate mans choice but only affirms it. He gives man what man chooses. If that offends you then be offended. It is your choice after all.

 

[Vaquero45]

Here's one.

Ge 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

NOTE: This is day one. It is a cardinal number. The following days are ordinal (e.g., second not two, third not three, etc.) Do the research.

As I said the Word of God is knowable. However, the Bible is not a lazy man's book.

Stop and Consider

Leonard A.

Not a lazy man's book. I agree it is a lot of work to twist what you just referenced into proof that God created time. Not a lazy man's book indeed. ugh.....

The "day" is a measurement of time, not proof that God created time.

Jeff

(I also learned how to win every arguement from now on. I'll just tell my opponent to go study until he agrees with me!)

(edit fixed spelling)

 

[RightIdea]

E4E, you're not making any sense in light of God's nature and character. You're telling us that before Creation, God never loved, never hoped, never fellowshipped within the Trinity, never thought or said or did anything whatsoever.... ever? That God only began to act and think and say and do and love... once Creation began? You're inferring that God was impotent/deist until Creation apparently somehow freed Him from this atemporal prison.

Time wouldn't "benefit" God outside of creation? God did indeed fellowship within the Trinity, completely apart from Creation! God loved and experienced relationality and made decisions (including to create the universe!) all before creation!

The atemporal God makes no sense, whatsoever, under any circumstances, unless one is a deist.

 

[Shalom]

I agree with Vaquero45. God is saying he named the light "day" which is a unit of time and the dark "night" which is a unit of time. It still doesnt prove that he created time.

 

[elected4ever]

E4E, you're not making any sense in light of God's nature and character. You're telling us that before Creation, God never loved, never hoped, never fellowshipped within the Trinity, never thought or said or did anything whatsoever.... ever? That God only began to act and think and say and do and love... once Creation began? You're inferring that God was impotent/deist until Creation apparently somehow freed Him from this atemporal prison.

Time wouldn't "benefit" God outside of creation? God did indeed fellowship within the Trinity, completely apart from Creation! God loved and experienced relationality and made decisions (including to create the universe!) all before creation!

The atemporal God makes no sense, whatsoever, under any circumstances, unless one is a deist.

TOTAL :spam:

 

[Leonard A]

Wait a minute.... By professing salvation by faith alone.... I'm preaching a gospel of works????? Wha...???

Can someone please explain this to me?

Salvation is used in three ways.
1. Justification
Tit 2:11 ¶ For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

2. Sactification
Php 2:12 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

3. Glorification
Ro 13:11 ¶ And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.

I have referred to the salvation that is our Justification. Point 1

The true believer's faith is the work of the Holy Spirit and His gift. Point 2.

Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Our faith does not justify us before God.

I hope this helps.

 

[RightIdea]

TOTAL :spam:

Wow, what a powerful refutation. I am defeated!

:hammer:

 

[RightIdea]

Salvation is used in three ways.
1. Justification
Tit 2:11 ¶ For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

2. Sactification
Php 2:12 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

3. Glorification
Ro 13:11 ¶ And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.

I have referred to the salvation that is our Justification. Point 1

The true believer's faith is the work of the Holy Spirit and His gift. Point 2.

Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Our faith does not justify us before God.

I hope this helps.

Where are you getting this wacky idea that our faith in Him is a gift from Him?

 

[elected4ever]

Where are you getting this wacky idea that our faith in Him is a gift from Him?

1 Corinthians 12:7 *But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.---------8 *For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 *To another faith by the same Spirit; :readthis:

 

[RightIdea]

1 Corinthians 12:7 *But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.---------8 *For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 *To another faith by the same Spirit; :readthis:

E4E, your interpretation can't possibly be accurate! If your interpretation is correct -- that this is referring to God giving faith to an unbeliever -- then that means this same passage talks about God giving other spiritual gifts to unbelievers as well!!! How on earth can you rationalize that? Do you expect us to believe that God gives these things, including healings, tongues, discernment of spirits and other miracles... to unbelievers???

To some He gives faith, and to others He gives these miraculous spiritual gifts? E4E, this passage can't possibly be referring to what the Holy Spirit is giving to unbelievers. It is talking about people who are in the Body of Christ. Believers! Yes, the Holy Spirit bolsters the faith of a believer! I definitely agree with that. But this passage can't possibly be used to support what you're claiming. That is obvious on its face.