BATTLE TALK ~ Battle Royale IV - JALTUS vs. s9s27s54

[CRC_FChristian]

Originally posted by Jaltus
Bill,

Because Jesus is the Truth. It really does not matter which (honest) version of the Bible you have, for Jesus is Lord over all. As long as your theology is correct, your bibliology is much less important.

When you remove/alter the Deity of Jesus Christ, remove/alter what his blood does for us then I have a big time problem with any translation that does so.

I also have a big time problem with Wescott and Hort who were the grandfathers of a number new "translations" simply for the fact they were not even Christian!!!!!!!!!!!! How can you trust any translation where the primary source doesnt even believe in Deity Of Jesus Christ...Dont think for a moment that the Devil wouldnt like more than anything to try and discredit the God's word by perverting scripture.

Like I've said before: when we get to Heaven provided we've believed and trusted that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven and accepted Jesus as our personal saviour God will let us know which translation was the right one!

Lastly I believe my bible scripture reference reveals alot of truth as it pertains to this discussion:

Romans 1:
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools

...and...

1 Corinthians 1:
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty

 

[Jaltus]

When you remove/alter the Deity of Jesus Christ, remove/alter what his blood does for us then I have a big time problem with any translation that does so.

So would I, but all of those facts are still present in modern translations, just not in the same amount of spots.

I also have a big time problem with Wescott and Hort who were the grandfathers of a number new "translations" simply for the fact they were not even Christian!!!!!!!!!!!! How can you trust any translation where the primary source doesnt even believe in Deity Of Jesus Christ...Dont think for a moment that the Devil wouldnt like more than anything to try and discredit the God's word by perverting scripture.

I agree. However, their text does not take away from doctrine, especially since nobody uses their text, only some of their methodology which they got from (tada!) Erasmus. Erasmus is the father of textual criticism, giving his reasoning as to why and how he collated his manuscript which became the TR. If you want to point the finger, point it at him.

Like I've said before: when we get to Heaven provided we've believed and trusted that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven and accepted Jesus as our personal saviour God will let us know which translation was the right one!

I think when we get to heaven God is going to smack us upside the head for worrying too much about doctrine and not enough about souls, nonChristian and Christian souls alike.

 

[Explosived]

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools

CRC I agree with your post, Satan is attacting Gods words.

Anything can contain portions of the word of God, Like a tract....but

Remember you can find a diamond in a sewer but that doesn't make it a jewelry store.

 

[drdeutsch]

Remember you can find a diamond in a sewer but that doesn't make it a jewelry store.

That is the most completely unwitty saying I have ever heard.
This thread is starting to get ridiculous.

Dr. Deutsch

 

[CRC_FChristian]

Originally posted by Jaltus
So would I, but all of those facts are still present in modern translations, just not in the same amount of spots.
I agree. However, their text does not take away from doctrine, especially since nobody uses their text, only some of their methodology which they got from (tada!) Erasmus. Erasmus is the father of textual criticism, giving his reasoning as to why and how he collated his manuscript which became the TR. If you want to point the finger, point it at him.
I think when we get to heaven God is going to smack us upside the head for worrying too much about doctrine and not enough about souls, nonChristian and Christian souls alike.

If you have no doctrine you have no truth:

Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them

Ephesians 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive


1 Timothy 1:3-4
As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

1 Timothy 1:10
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine


1 Timothy 6:3
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 4:2-4
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables


Titus 1:9
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

 

[Jaltus]

Really? Last time I checked, Jesus was the truth, not doctrine.

John 14:6, in case you are wondering.

 

[Pilgrimagain]

as if somehow, our doctrine was big enough to contain God, right?

 

[bill betzler]

Hitch,

Were you trying to say something facetiously?

I can assure you that I do not know the words.

Of course you do,,after all it was AUTHORIZED....

So tell me which is greater: King James authorizing something, or, modern scholarship telling you what you can or cannot believe, or trusting in God?

 

[bill betzler]

Jaltus,

Originally posted by Jaltus
Bill,

Because Jesus is the Truth. It really does not matter which (honest) version of the Bible you have, for Jesus is Lord over all. As long as your theology is correct, your bibliology is much less important.

So are you saying that the KJV is an honest version?

 

[bill betzler]

Jaltus,

Really? Last time I checked, Jesus was the truth, not doctrine.

I don't think that you really believe what you just said. It is the part about doctrine.

 

[bill betzler]

Pilgrimagain,

as if somehow, our doctrine was big enough to contain God, right?

This is a good point, but even our limited knowlege of God must be true and we need true theology to live a Godly life.

 

[bill betzler]

Remember you can find a diamond in a sewer but that doesn't make it a jewelry store.

I must be a base person since I found it funny with a ring of truth.

The most difficult lie to see is one that is surrounded by truth in it's presentation. Hence, so many are easily deceived.

 

[Jaltus]

You do not need true doctrine to live a godly life, you need true practice. There is a difference.

Yes, the KJV is an honest translation.

Doctrine can be true, but it cannot be the Truth. Only Jesus is the Truth. Read John's gospel to see what I am talking about.

 

[drbrumley]

JALTUS

 

[drbrumley]

LOL! I was shocked to see that you said KJV is an honest version. Far cry from "it needs to be in a trash heap."

Praise God!

 

[Jaltus]

Again, the only problem I have with the KJV (other than it is old) is the KJVOs.

I think the OT translation is one of the best. The NT needs some work, but hey, usually nobody gets the OT right (understanding genre is a big deal, and the KJV nailed it).

 

[Explosived]

Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read. Not the Greek

Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read. Not the Greek

Here's an interesting fact about why the Authorized Version of the Holy Bible is superior
to any Greek text, or any Greek manuscripts,

because the order of its books reveal Pre-millen-nialism. The "originals" don't. The "original" Hebrew Old Testament does not follow a Premillennial order from 2 Chronicles to the Psalms. Furthermore, it does not end with a warning about the coming of the Messiah; it ends with a commandment for Jews to return to Jerusalem (2 Chron. 36:23). Furthermore, it is missing twenty-seven books to be a genuine Bible. The word "Bible" means book: not three-fourths of a book.

The order of books in an AV does not follow the Septuagint at all, for as anyone knows, every Septuagint manuscript extant contains apocryphal books as part of the Old Testament inspired canon (A, Aleph, B, etc.).

The hypocrites who went by Aleph and B (Sinaiticus and Vaticanus) simply refused to print their own text. They made you think that The Wisdom of Solomon, Tobit, Judith, etc., are not in it. They are.

 

[Jaltus]

For once, I will respond to Ex.

The 1611 KJV was printed with the apocrypha. It is only the new editions that do not have it.

Still sticking with it?

 

[Explosived]

Always correct the Greek with the English!

Always correct the Greek with the English!

In the days in which our Bible was translated, the Apocrypha was accepted reading based on its historical value, though not accepted as Scripture by anyone outside of' the Catholic church.

The King James translators therefore placed it between the Old and New Testaments for its historical benefit to its readers. They did not integrate it into the Old Testament text as do the corrupt Alexandrian manuscripts.

That they( The King James translators)rejected the Apocrypha as divine is very obvious by the seven reasons which they gave for not incorporating it into the text. They are as follows:
1. Not one of them is in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament.
2. Not one of the writers lays any claim to inspiration.
3. These books were never acknowledged as sacred Scriptures by the Jewish Church, and therefore were never sanctioned by our Lord.
4. They were not allowed a place among the sacred books, during the first four centuries of the Christian Church.
5. They contain fabulous statements, and statements which contradict not only the canonical Scriptures, but themselves; as when, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in as many different places.
6. It inculcates doctrines at variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection.
7. It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assassination and magical incantation.

 

[Huldrych]

Originally posted by Jaltus
Yes, the KJV is an honest translation.

Even though it is based on the "corrupt" TR?

News Flash
I think only those of you who have any interest in German will find this interesting:

How this slipped by eight years of study, two degrees, and sixteen years experience with the language, I don't know (well, I do, secular education does not hold sacred literature in very high esteem), but I just discovered that, in the time between Ulfilas and Luther, the Waldenses had their own translations of the Bible in German.

About fourteen editions, or so I read.

What's more, Luther seems to have drawn very heavily from it. If you compare a Waldensian Bible with a Luther, they match up almost exactly.

I know, this may be boring or irrelevant to everyone else, but it is a very exciting find for me! :thumb:

Blessings,
jth