ARCHIVE - You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar
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Goose
New member
1. I have yet to graduate from collegeZakath said:Good point, beanieboy.
Just what I want to be like when I grow up...
... the globetrotting exorcist evangelist who can't even remember what kind of degree he has from college
... the bigoted, obnoxious, ignorant jerk who pickets private homes and yells at residents
... all the calvalcade of lunatics who parade themselves as models of Christianity here at TOL!
I don't think so...
2. I have yet to picket private homes
3. I have yet to be diagnosed as a lunatic
If diagnosed as a lunatic by the public however, I'd take that as a compliment. Many people thought Jesus and John the Baptist were crazy. I'd like to at least be in the same general category.
Zakath
Resident Atheist
goose said:
My advice to you, goose: don't be so caught up in the argument that you miss someone's point. I've done it myself a few times...
My comment was on Beanieboy's post.
#1 and #2 referred to specific individuals whom many readers will recognize from the descriptions.
If #3 doesn't fit you, then don't take a general description personally.
Since none of them were aimed at you, no hits does not negate their truthfulness.
BTW, I wouldn't exactly be thrilled at being diagnosed as a lunatic. It doesn't place one in very good company. That category also includes folks like Jeffrery Dalhmer (sp?), Andrea Yates, the (dead) members of the Heaven's Gate cult, and several of my former clients, one of whom insisted (at age 30) she was Adolf Hitler's daughter and that her toaster was a secret radio transmitter from "god".
Evangelion
New member
Goose you wrote:
Nope.
But it was fun to watch you do it...
Nope.
But it was fun to watch you do it...
Lion:You say we demonstrate hate by our harshness, but it is you that shows hate at every occasion. You would allow your son to make a whore out of my daughter and tell him that he is just fine for doing it and you will still love him no matter what. Why, he could do anything, no matter how wicked or vile or horrible, and you will still love him. So why shouldn’t he do it? Dad will still love me… right? I can’t be all bad.
________________________________
Who said I would say it is alright?
I would love my son, and if he did something I didn't approve of, I would tell him that I didn't support what he was doing, but I would still love him. I would never say, "Now, I hate you. Don't talk to me until you stop living with her."
I have made mistakes growing up. We all have. But if my parents were to tell me that they hated me when I smoked in high school, and froze me out, I would never talk to them again. I don't need fair weather love.
And forgive me if I offend you with my judgement, but no matter how much your "yes" men say, "good answer, lion," "well said, goose," I think you're full of beans. Even satan was able to quote the bible and make it say something completely contradictory to what it meant.
________________________________
Who said I would say it is alright?
I would love my son, and if he did something I didn't approve of, I would tell him that I didn't support what he was doing, but I would still love him. I would never say, "Now, I hate you. Don't talk to me until you stop living with her."
I have made mistakes growing up. We all have. But if my parents were to tell me that they hated me when I smoked in high school, and froze me out, I would never talk to them again. I don't need fair weather love.
And forgive me if I offend you with my judgement, but no matter how much your "yes" men say, "good answer, lion," "well said, goose," I think you're full of beans. Even satan was able to quote the bible and make it say something completely contradictory to what it meant.
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o2bwise
New member
Logic 101
Logic 101
Hey Zakath,
BTW, I wouldn't exactly be thrilled at being diagnosed as a lunatic.
Let x be all positive numbers.
Let y be all positive integers.
Let z be all positive fractions.
Being diagnosed something (here represented as being a positive number) may not equate to being that thing (here represented by a positive fraction). Positive integers ought not be worried about being positive fractions, all they while they are positive numbers!
Get it?
Logic 101
Hey Zakath,
BTW, I wouldn't exactly be thrilled at being diagnosed as a lunatic.
Let x be all positive numbers.
Let y be all positive integers.
Let z be all positive fractions.
Being diagnosed something (here represented as being a positive number) may not equate to being that thing (here represented by a positive fraction). Positive integers ought not be worried about being positive fractions, all they while they are positive numbers!
Get it?
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goose said:
You are telling me that quoting a verse out of context suggesting hating one's family is what God wants, then tell me that you know God?
I question that. You focus on harshness and rebuke, and call that love. You focus on the harshness of the Old Testament, while over looking the call for gentleness that Christ taught.
You never talk about love, ie., Love is gentle, love is kind, etc. You just focus on judgement, and harshness. You say that I need to clean house, and yet I see, as do many others here, that you have a plank the size of a sequoia in your eye. Above all things we are to pray for love.
I'm sorry, but I think you are leading God by the hand, instead of the other way around. I do not profess to know your heart. And you cannot profess to know what conversations I have with God. I thank you for your concern, but this is between me and God.
Goose
New member
My advice to you Zakath would be to not say stupid illogical extreme attacks and then come back and try to defend them logically. It's pety. It's a waste of my time. Let's paint an orange and then try to argue just what it is. Well, it's not completely an orange....stupid stuff.Zakath said:
My advice to you, goose: don't be so caught up in the argument that you miss someone's point. I've done it myself a few times...
My comment was on Beanieboy's post.
#1 and #2 referred to specific individuals whom many readers will recognize from the descriptions.
If #3 doesn't fit you, then don't take a general description personally.
Since none of them were aimed at you, no hits does not negate their truthfulness.
BTW, I wouldn't exactly be thrilled at being diagnosed as a lunatic. It doesn't place one in very good company. That category also includes folks like Jeffrery Dalhmer (sp?), Andrea Yates, the (dead) members of the Heaven's Gate cult, and several of my former clients, one of whom insisted (at age 30) she was Adolf Hitler's daughter and that her toaster was a secret radio transmitter from "god".
Goose
New member
No, I was trying to see if you would take it that way. You did! You proved a point of mine that you probably won't understand yet. You see love as an emotion. Not as a choice. Hate is at the opposite spectrum of love in your world. They are not of the same dimension however. Love can be emitted through emotion, but that's only a showing of love.beanieboy said:
The only time christ was gentle was when someone's heart totally broke down and repented or followed him. God in the OT did the same too. You can see their heart by their actions. Running to Christ, weeping for Christ, etc. I'd like to see scripture otherwise. PLEASE don't take it out of context or it will be a waste of our time and space.
You live a homosexual lifestyle do you not? I find little to love in that. So does God. Meanwhile, extrapolate on my plank. Once you get done posting, you might want to go back and read the whole thread again since I'll be saying the same stuff over.
You're contradicting yourself all over the place Beanie. A while ago you tell us you're a sinner. A couple posts ago you said that you haven't accepted Jesus into your heart. Now you say you have conversations with God. Why don't you just humble yourself and tell us the truth. What's really holding you up?
Goose
New member
Yes, I was trying to joke with my self a little too. I think the time is always now to decide, there is no meanwhile. There is not a majority if christians in the world, and since families aren't usually converted all at once, there's going to be divisions. If my parents don't have christian values, I wouldn't be doing God's Will. It's never a meanwhile for me. The time is always now. That's what I'm trying to say. I felt I had to extrapolate for the audience.Evangelion said:Goose you wrote:
Nope.
But it was fun to watch you do it...
Talk the talk and walk the walk, that's love.
Talk the talk and walk the walk, that's love.
Who said it? You said it. Because actions speak louder than words.
If your son shacked up with my daughter, you would be willing to do as much as you could so long as you didn’t have to cause yourself pain. That is the difference between the two actions.
You would tell your son that it was naughty and you wish he wouldn’t do it. But if he told you that he was going to go on making a whore out of her and you had best just get use to it, then you would just say “Okay, well I love you anyway, son.” And allow him to destroy himself and my daughter. So long as you didn’t have to put anything on the line.
I would tell my son that what he was doing was wrong, and that his selfish evil made me sick. And if he told me he was going to do it anyway, I would put myself in danger, because of my true love for my son, and put my actions where my mouth is. I would disown him. I have already stated how much pain this would cause me. More pain than it will cause my son I guarantee you. It’s like that old saying about a spanking: This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you! Well that is a true saying, as any loving parent that has spanked his child knows all too well.
And look, let’s quit playing word games like “Oh I have made mistakes in my life, but loving people forgive me when I do.”
As Goose so aptly pointed out, a mistake is turning left when you meant to turn right, not making a whore out of a woman. Murder is not a mistake. Rape is not a mistake. Fornication is not a mistake. All can be forgiven, but first a person has to repent. We are talking about a person that is actively sinning and refusing to stop hurting himself and another. That isn’t a mistake, that is evil, and should be treated as such.
As for smoking, (not that somking is a sin) perhaps your parents should have spanked you when they found you smoking, and then spanked you again and again until you decided to quit before it became a life long habit that may one day kill you. That would have been loving. The same goes for your decisions on sexual immorality.
And that’s because actions speak louder than words. And true love often requires sacrifice. I would be willing to sacrifice my security, and comfort, and suffer the horrible pain of having my son hate me, in order to try and save him. You would not. That’s the difference, and it’s all the difference in the world.
As for using the Old Testament, that is because I was trying to be nice. God is much harsher in the New Testament than He ever was in the Old Testament.
Talk the talk and walk the walk, that's love.
Who said it? You said it. Because actions speak louder than words.
If your son shacked up with my daughter, you would be willing to do as much as you could so long as you didn’t have to cause yourself pain. That is the difference between the two actions.
You would tell your son that it was naughty and you wish he wouldn’t do it. But if he told you that he was going to go on making a whore out of her and you had best just get use to it, then you would just say “Okay, well I love you anyway, son.” And allow him to destroy himself and my daughter. So long as you didn’t have to put anything on the line.
I would tell my son that what he was doing was wrong, and that his selfish evil made me sick. And if he told me he was going to do it anyway, I would put myself in danger, because of my true love for my son, and put my actions where my mouth is. I would disown him. I have already stated how much pain this would cause me. More pain than it will cause my son I guarantee you. It’s like that old saying about a spanking: This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you! Well that is a true saying, as any loving parent that has spanked his child knows all too well.
And look, let’s quit playing word games like “Oh I have made mistakes in my life, but loving people forgive me when I do.”
As Goose so aptly pointed out, a mistake is turning left when you meant to turn right, not making a whore out of a woman. Murder is not a mistake. Rape is not a mistake. Fornication is not a mistake. All can be forgiven, but first a person has to repent. We are talking about a person that is actively sinning and refusing to stop hurting himself and another. That isn’t a mistake, that is evil, and should be treated as such.
As for smoking, (not that somking is a sin) perhaps your parents should have spanked you when they found you smoking, and then spanked you again and again until you decided to quit before it became a life long habit that may one day kill you. That would have been loving. The same goes for your decisions on sexual immorality.
And that’s because actions speak louder than words. And true love often requires sacrifice. I would be willing to sacrifice my security, and comfort, and suffer the horrible pain of having my son hate me, in order to try and save him. You would not. That’s the difference, and it’s all the difference in the world.
As for using the Old Testament, that is because I was trying to be nice. God is much harsher in the New Testament than He ever was in the Old Testament.
And this is just scratching the surface. Jesus is love, but love isn’t always nice, it can’t be and truly be love in the face of hate and evil. And that’s the point.
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Awesome posts Lion! (especially the one before the last one!)
Evangelion
New member
Lion wrote:
Yep.
Check the context.
Goose understood me.
Why don't you ask him/her?
Yep.
Check the context.
Goose understood me.
Why don't you ask him/her?
Because I asked YOU.
Because I asked YOU.
E-Well, okay, but it would be easier if you just told me.
You said:
Perhaps you don’t take God’s commandments literally enough. I’ll bet you wouldn’t take this one literally would you?
Because I asked YOU.
E-Well, okay, but it would be easier if you just told me.
You said:
In what way am I taking the commandment of honoring your father and mother too far when I hate what is evil?
Perhaps you don’t take God’s commandments literally enough. I’ll bet you wouldn’t take this one literally would you?
Evangelion
New member
I've already had this one out with Goose.
Read our exchange.
You've totally missed my point.
As for this...
...it's not even vaguely close to what I had written.
In my previous response to Goose, I commented on this:
I pointed out that by taking the "hate" part too literally, you break the commandment "honour thy father and mother." (And of course, if you really hate your own life, you'll commit suicide. But that's not what Jesus means, is it?)
If you want to talk about how to deal with family members who are morally astray, we can do that too.
You might be surprised at the extent to which I have had personal experience in this regard.
Read our exchange.
You've totally missed my point.
As for this...
...it's not even vaguely close to what I had written.
In my previous response to Goose, I commented on this:
I pointed out that by taking the "hate" part too literally, you break the commandment "honour thy father and mother." (And of course, if you really hate your own life, you'll commit suicide. But that's not what Jesus means, is it?)
If you want to talk about how to deal with family members who are morally astray, we can do that too.
You might be surprised at the extent to which I have had personal experience in this regard.
Evangelion
New member
By the way, your signature makes mention of "the lion and the lamb."
They're actually one and the same person.
Did you know that?
They're actually one and the same person.
Did you know that?