ARCHIVE - You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar

Goose

New member
beanieboy said:
I don't hate Jesus. Show me where I have ever said that.

You say that you speak the word of God. I think you don't. I have a problem with you, not with God. I think you don't have love. You have a lot of vindication. It's pretty creepy, actually.

Zacheus was asked to come down from the tree and dine with Jesus. Zacheus didn't welcome Jesus. Jesus welcomed Zacheus, and did it with kindness. He did it to the shock of the public. And he didn't say that he wouldn't dine with Zacheus until after he changed. He didn't call Zacheus a thieving tax collector. He didn't call him a cheat. He didn't call him a dog, or a whore. He called him by name, and was gentle. He loved him "while we were yet sinners."

Yet, some people here want me to believe that God hates us for our sin. I say, bologna. I say, you serve evil forces. It's as if you want God to hate certain people. And it keeps reminding me of the people that would say, "I'm going to heaven and you're not!" Some people can't enjoy what they have unless they know others don't have it, and flaunt it. It's weird. And it's twisted.

You say that Jesus was angry. So why wasn't he upetting the brothels? Why wasn't he rebuking them harshly? Why wasn't he calling them names? Was he "holding their hands to hell?" Where is all of this harshness, except where people exhalted themselves?

If I don't "get it," it's because you are a loud gong thinking it is making beautiful music.

We may just have to agree to disagree.

Beanie,

I think you're creepy. If you're living an immoral lifestyle, God despises you. But because he also loves your soul salvation, he gives you a chance to repent. he loves the image you were created in, but he despises what you've become. But you don't repent. You don't despise wickedness. He doesn't want to cast you into the fire, but he will if he has to.

Again, Jesus knew Zaccaeus's heart before anyone else could discern his intentions. Even before Zaccaeus knew of himself!

Again I ask, why don't you accept Jesus into your heart?
 

Goose

New member
Beanie,

He would not be as vivid in my heart like he was before. I would cut him out of my life until he would want to be grafted in again. He would be dead, or dying to me, until he accepts true life again.

I would judge every action and take value to that action. Just as there are verying punishments in the bible, so would I decide which punishment to use. Some being severe for severe crimes. Somes punishements being small for lesser stuff.
 

beanieboy

New member
Goose - this is the kind of judgement that people aren't up on. You are judging my heart. If I was not somewhat interested in seeking God, I would not be here. I would be apathetic.

But it is like me being up in a tree, and you telling me that Jesus hates me, and will continue to do so, until I change. And I'm telling you to keep it down, because I want to hear what he's saying.

You are not God. You do not know my heart. Please do not assume to know it.
 

beanieboy

New member
Honestly? Because people like you have. Because Knight says he has. Because Jefferson says he has. Because Freak said he has. And I don't want that to happen to my heart. I don't want to gleefully mock people, harden my heart and act without compassion, and become full of myself. I don't want that to happen to me.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Good point, beanieboy.

Just what I want to be like when I grow up...

  • ... the globetrotting exorcist evangelist who can't even remember what kind of degree he has from college

    ... the bigoted, obnoxious, ignorant jerk who pickets private homes and yells at residents

    ... all the calvalcade of lunatics who parade themselves as models of Christianity here at TOL!

I don't think so... :rolleyes:
 

Goose

New member
Zakath said:
Good point, beanieboy.

Just what I want to be like when I grow up...

  • ... the globetrotting exorcist evangelist who can't even remember what kind of degree he has from college

    ... the bigoted, obnoxious, ignorant jerk who pickets private homes and yells at residents

    ... all the calvalcade of lunatics who parade themselves as models of Christianity here at TOL!

I don't think so... :rolleyes:
Congrats Zakath,

Another false accusation with me fulfilling none of the above!
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
goose said:
Congrats Zakath,

Another false accusation with me fulfilling none of the above!

I've obviously missed something.

Perhaps you'd care to enlighten me on which of the descriptions of denizens of TOL was a "false accusation"...
 

Lion

King of the jungle
Super Moderator
Great great great

Great great great

Goose and Knight-Fantastic responses, I couldn’t hope to do any better.
 

Lion

King of the jungle
Super Moderator
hell is hotter than...well, hell

hell is hotter than...well, hell

bb-Would I hate my son if he shacked up with his girlfriend out of marriage. Absolutely. I would despise him for harming himself and making a whore out of the woman. And I would tell him that he would have no part in my life until he repented and came back to God.

This would cause me horrible pain, far more pain than it would cost my son.

Why would I do this even though it would break my heart? Because I love my son and it is what is best for him. This attitude, which my son knows I take from the Bible, is the strongest possible way to keep him from doing such a terrible thing, to himself and others.

You say we demonstrate hate by our harshness, but it is you that shows hate at every occasion. You would allow your son to make a whore out of my daughter and tell him that he is just fine for doing it and you will still love him no matter what. Why, he could do anything, no matter how wicked or vile or horrible, and you will still love him. So why shouldn’t he do it? Dad will still love me… right? I can’t be all bad.

Paul tells us how to deal with a brother committing sexual immorality:
1Cor. 5:1-7 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles — that a man has his father’s wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Your glorying is not good (beanieboy). Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened.
Paul tells us not to keep company with such people or even to eat with them. We are to excommunicate them in the hope they will turn back to the Lord.

However that is for a fellow Christian. You are not a brother so I will still talk to you for a while. God doesn’t put as tough a standard on you because you don’t have the gift of the Holy Spirit to guide you. That’s why you need us.

Oh I know, now you’re going to start with that stuff about how we are Holier than thou, well we are, but it has nothing to do with us. It is a complete gift from God. I don’t deserve it. I was a terrible person. I was an atheist that tried to send people to hell. I deserve to go to hell.

Nothing, not one thing, or in any way what-so-ever, have I ever done anything that would make me worthy to spend eternity with God.

God offered me the precious gift of His Son’s blood to cover my sins, and all I did was accept that gift.

And the only reason I am a better person today is because I became a new creation when I accepted that gift. The Holy Spirit came into me and changed me. So now it’s not that I can’t go out and sin. I could. Sometimes I even do. But I don’t want to anymore. And the closer my relationship with God is, the less and less I want to at all. And when I’m really close, I don’t even get tempted at all. That’s what Goose is talking about when he says that he has a heart for God and you don’t.

Last point. As for judging your heart… we judge your heart by your actions and your words. You say that you are looking into Christianity… that’s a good idea, but here’s the kicker. You don’t get to accept it on your terms. It has to be on God’s terms. You need to really look into the Bible and see if it’s what you want. If you don’t, and so far it looks like you don’t, then you are free to choose to live without God. He won’t force you to chose Him, in fact He can’t force you to chose Him. That’s up to you, and that’s real love.
 

Goose

New member
Re: hell is hotter than...well, hell

Re: hell is hotter than...well, hell

Great way to wrap that all up Lion. That's exactly my thoughts.
 

Goose

New member
I wonder what they think of this verse?
Luk 14:26 "If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
 

Lion

King of the jungle
Super Moderator
Psa. 139:21-22 Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You? And do I not loathe those wh

Psa. 139:21-22 Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You? And do I not loathe those wh

Evangelion-And which commandment would that be? Hmmmmmmm?
 

Goose

New member
Evangelion said:
We can start with "honour thy father and mother" and take it from there.

:)
What if honoring your parents was contradictory to what honoring God was? What if your parent's will for you is opposite of God's Will? Isn't God your real father to begin with? A man cannot serve two masters. He will hate one and love the other (Mat 6:24). We must decide.
 
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Goose

New member
beanieboy said:
Honestly? Because people like you have. Because Knight says he has. Because Jefferson says he has. Because Freak said he has. And I don't want that to happen to my heart. I don't want to gleefully mock people, harden my heart and act without compassion, and become full of myself. I don't want that to happen to me.
I'd like to think I'm full of something, but I am NOT full of myself. I'm a changed man. I'm not my own. I'm totally different than what I was. It's not something I did in works physically. It's something I despised and cast away in my heart and mind. I had to make room in my heart for Jesus. He wanted to live in my heart. Jesus Christ is something I accepted into my heart once I repented. He is the piece of me that fills the God shaped hole that is in mine, and everyone's heart. Most people fill this space with idols. Sex, drugs, power, etc, but they never fit right and then slowly, goes about to destroy the body it fills. Evil doesn't fit right in our hearts. Jesus does. Jesus is life.

I have compassion for the people who are empty and also for the brothers and sisters who have accepted Christ also into their hearts. You still have some house cleaning to do Beanie. I know we're rough, but we have to be. We really do despise evil. We love sinners enough though, to tell them this much. If we didn't care in the slightest, we wouldn't even waste our time posting. Mark my words: Indifferece is the tool of the uncaring.

God will not accept you as His until you are sorry for the wrongs you have done in your life and accept Jesus Christ into your heart to absolutely take control of you. You cannot do wrong when Jesus is in your heart.

Will you receive Him Beanie? He's waiting. I answered the faint knock at my heart's door. I urge you to do the same. No matter how faint the sound may seem. I've learned that for all the years I thought I couldn't hear Jesus, it was because I had run so far from Him to begin with.
 
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Evangelion

New member
I liked your previous answer better, goose. ;)

You wrote:

What if honoring your parents was contradictory to what honoring God was?

It isn't. "Honouring" doesn't mean "obeying without question." At the very least, we are required to give our parents the filial respect of which they are worthy.

[ What if your parent's will for you is opposite of God's Will?

That's a different question entirely. Naturally, God's will takes precedence.

I would have thought that was obvious.

Isn't God your real father to begin with?

Yes. How is this relevant?

A man cannot serve two masters. He will hate one and love the other (Mat 6:24).

Correct.

We must decide.

Indeed.

Meanwhile, we are required to honour our father and mother.

:)
 
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