ARCHIVE: Telling a lie can be righteous!
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Y
Yxboom
Guest
Do you often lie about your exorcisms and evangelistic successes?
Y
Yxboom
Guest
Is that a lie?
smilax
New member
I'm not disagreeing, just trying to spark a bit more discussion, so don't flame too much for these sticks of wood.
John vii, 8-10: "Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come. When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee. But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret."
You can interpret this in at least three ways.
1. Christ's time had indeed not yet come when they asked, which is why He responded that way, but that had changed after they left. Note that there is some textual evidence that the "yet" is a later addition.
2. This is part of a Johannine theme of Jesus transcending mundane affairs. This also ties in with the constant retreating from the masses or responding to questions with obscure, spiritual answers.
3. What is actually happening is the practice of equivocation, which was done to avoid public conflict out of a collectivist mindset. As such, it was commonplace to say one thing and do a completely other.
One might argue that the last one makes most sense because it takes the cultural context into account. If so, then the moral hierarchy is justified; one would be allowed to lie for the sake of a higher purpose, (for example, to save lives,) and it would not be counted immoral at all, but rather honorable.
Yes, Knight, I think lying is wrong under any circumstances.
There is a story about how German troops invaded a house where Jews were being hidden. There was a hidden basement in the house. The Germans asked if there were any Jews hiding in the house, and a little girl told them they were hiding under the table. Seeing that the table was about 4 foot in diameter, the Germans laughed, looked under the table, and left.
Of course, the Jews were under the table, since the table was above the entrance to the hidden basement.
God honors the truth. How can we say we follow Christ, who is the Truth embodied, if we do not honor the truth as well?
Frankly, I see all your little reasons for lying as rationalizing what the flesh wants to do.
Mind you, lying is different from misleading. Such as:
If a car is stopped going from one country to another, trying to smuggle Bibles in, and the border guards ask if you have any Bibles hidden in your car, I would not answer yes, I would say if you find any, then I guess I have some. Not answering directly is not lying.
There is a story about how German troops invaded a house where Jews were being hidden. There was a hidden basement in the house. The Germans asked if there were any Jews hiding in the house, and a little girl told them they were hiding under the table. Seeing that the table was about 4 foot in diameter, the Germans laughed, looked under the table, and left.
Of course, the Jews were under the table, since the table was above the entrance to the hidden basement.
God honors the truth. How can we say we follow Christ, who is the Truth embodied, if we do not honor the truth as well?
Frankly, I see all your little reasons for lying as rationalizing what the flesh wants to do.
Mind you, lying is different from misleading. Such as:
If a car is stopped going from one country to another, trying to smuggle Bibles in, and the border guards ask if you have any Bibles hidden in your car, I would not answer yes, I would say if you find any, then I guess I have some. Not answering directly is not lying.
C
cirisme
Guest
Amen. :thumb:
If the devil is the FATHER of all lies.
and the fall of man is the result of BELIEVEING A LIE rather than the truth.
How then can a lie be JUSTYFIED!?
a HALF TRUTH is also a LIE.
A white lie is also one.
The devil was cast out of heaven BECAUSE the 'day' came when the "truth was not in Him"
God DEMANDS the we be TRUTHFULL both INWARDLY and OUTWARDLY.
A false witness(a Liar) is also one of the things God ABHORS.
So if 'ALL' the scriptures point ONE way(NOT LYING) and you get one or two verses seemingly saying the contrary and God blessing it .
Then you have to look again.
Because God CANNOT bless a lie.
nor does a blessing come from one.
nor any good.
for the SEED of a LIE comes from the devil.
and its planted and brigns forth after its own kind.
Jesus came to destroy THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL.
and those WORKS are the FRUIT of the SEED planted.
So you have the GOOD seed of God.
and the SEED which brings forth "tares"
and it is when men SLEEP that the 'tares' are sown.
As for being faced with a situation which 'DEMANDS' we lie(as some may think)
What does the scripture say?
"No man is tempted beyond his strength but in the temptation God will give a way out."
Now if we are 'sleeping' we may not 'see' the way out.
But that does not mean it is not there.
But if we are filled with the Spirit and WALKING in the Spirit we will NOT fullfill the lusts of the flesh(lie) but find that ONE way and walk in it.
and the fall of man is the result of BELIEVEING A LIE rather than the truth.
How then can a lie be JUSTYFIED!?
a HALF TRUTH is also a LIE.
A white lie is also one.
The devil was cast out of heaven BECAUSE the 'day' came when the "truth was not in Him"
God DEMANDS the we be TRUTHFULL both INWARDLY and OUTWARDLY.
A false witness(a Liar) is also one of the things God ABHORS.
So if 'ALL' the scriptures point ONE way(NOT LYING) and you get one or two verses seemingly saying the contrary and God blessing it .
Then you have to look again.
Because God CANNOT bless a lie.
nor does a blessing come from one.
nor any good.
for the SEED of a LIE comes from the devil.
and its planted and brigns forth after its own kind.
Jesus came to destroy THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL.
and those WORKS are the FRUIT of the SEED planted.
So you have the GOOD seed of God.
and the SEED which brings forth "tares"
and it is when men SLEEP that the 'tares' are sown.
As for being faced with a situation which 'DEMANDS' we lie(as some may think)
What does the scripture say?
"No man is tempted beyond his strength but in the temptation God will give a way out."
Now if we are 'sleeping' we may not 'see' the way out.
But that does not mean it is not there.
But if we are filled with the Spirit and WALKING in the Spirit we will NOT fullfill the lusts of the flesh(lie) but find that ONE way and walk in it.
Last edited:
C
cirisme
Guest
Yx,
I'd venture to say yes.
I'd venture to say yes.
This is initself a lie!
How can a person who has indwelling the SPIRIT of TRUTH speak a LIE?
Love does not lie but speaks the truth.
For if God is LOVE then on your argument He must lie!
Which is the ONLY thing HE CANT do!
It clearly says in scripture that the DEVIL is the FATHER of all lies.
So how can LOVE which is of God be the father of it!?
Now the "LOVE of the wicked is cruel"the scriptures say.
So perhaps that is the 'love' you are talking about?
So you think it was wrong for the Hebrew midwives to lie to the Egyptian King?
Last edited:
Y
Yxboom
Guest
Yes, but as the greater evil would be the massacre of Hebrew children. The lesser evil (lying) was eclipsed by the consequence of the greater evil that would result.
Y
Yxboom
Guest
Otherwise if lying which is wrong ever had a circumstance where it was right would result in the banishment of absolute since by circumstance everything is relative. Sin can be righteous given the right circumstances, would undermine God's absolute and therefore call into question what were you trying to prove in the Battle Royale against Zakath.
P
Pilgrimagain
Guest
How about the idea that perhaps a lie was justified, but is still wrong.
It's like the Bonhoeffer example. He knew that to plot the assasinatino of another human was murder, he knew it was sin and deliberate sin, but waying the consequences he decided that the attempt to kill Hitler he was involved with was justified though ultimately sinful.
It's like the Bonhoeffer example. He knew that to plot the assasinatino of another human was murder, he knew it was sin and deliberate sin, but waying the consequences he decided that the attempt to kill Hitler he was involved with was justified though ultimately sinful.
Y
Yxboom
Guest
That makes no sense....if there are higher absolutes than the stated absolute, they are NOT absolutes. Absolutes by definition can not have any higher absolute than itself nor can there be an instance that an absolute is no longer absolute otherwise it would cease to be absolute! :doh:
servent101
New member
To me a Christian has to grow into their faith. If it is possible to keep the peace only by telling a lie, that is what has to be done, at least in most circumstances. One can also win the argument, but loose the person. There are good scriptures quoted in this thread, scriptures that at least on the surface show that yes God's people do lie, and that lie is for temporary gain. We don't live in heaven right now, and "some people are so heavenly minded that they are of no earthly good. " Possibly you have heard this before.
Just because absolutes exist.... does not mean EVERYTHING is absolute.
Lying is NOT an absolute.
Lying is NOT an absolute.