ARCHIVE: Open Theism part 2

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elected4ever

elected4ever

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godrulz said:
Truthsmack.

If God did evil, He would not be righteous by definition. God does not do evil, period. He is holy and will always be so.

Confusing the technical category of metaphysics vs morals is part of his problem. Philosophers debate issues of being vs volition, so we should be prepared to think this through.
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Your definition of righteousness does not count for much.
 
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godrulz

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elected4ever said:
I believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, Not God. Prove me wrong dim wit.
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Guilty as charged. I knew something was wrong with your spirit/views all these months, but now I know. You are outside of biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity and in the same boat as keypurr, Chandler, and others.
 
elected4ever

elected4ever

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godrulz said:
Guilty as charged. I knew something was wrong with your spirit/views all these months, but now I know. You are outside of biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity and in the same boat as keypurr, Chandler, and others.
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If by this you mean that i am outside the carnal, legalistic, historical, orthodoxie that passes for Christianity. I am guilty as charged.
 
Nang

Nang

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godrulz said:
You are misunderstanding and misrepresenting what I am saying.
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No, I am not.

I simply said that God loves and is love. He demonstrates this love in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. It is not just a matter of being (Rom. 5:8; Jn. 3:16).
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God being love has nothing to do with what He created.

Therefore, God's love is not conditional upon the existance or actions of His created beings; whether Satan, or Adam, or cows and birds, or etc.

God's righteousness is self-contained. God's love is centered in Himself. God's purposes are centered in Himself.

Get used to it, if for some reason you, as one of His created beings, are included in His thoughts, actions, and love . . .that is purely according to His grace, and no other reason at all.

Nang
 
Clete

Clete

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elected4ever said:
I believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, Not God. Prove me wrong dim wit.
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John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.


John 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”​

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
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godrulz

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God loved within His triune relations before creation. We are also objects of His love. You are reading too much into things. I am not diametrically opposed to what you are saying.

We love because He first loved us. God loved us and died for us. The Father/Son/Spirit love each other. No contradiction, so chill.
 
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godrulz

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Clete said:
John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.


John 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”​

Resting in Him,
Clete
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+ 40 other verses. The JW Arian proof texts are refutable and number about 6 (Jn. 14:28; Rev. 3:14; Col. 1:15; etc.).
 
elected4ever

elected4ever

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Clete said:
John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.


John 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”​

Resting in Him,
Clete
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You believe that I believe any different than that?
 
elected4ever

elected4ever

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godrulz said:
God loved within His triune relations before creation. We are also objects of His love. You are reading too much into things. I am not diametrically opposed to what you are saying.

We love because He first loved us. God loved us and died for us. The Father/Son/Spirit love each other. No contradiction, so chill.
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God did not die. If He did He would not be God.
 
Mystery

Mystery

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Clete said:
By the way, the Open Theist's answer to the question would be simply that God is righteous because He chooses to act in the best interests of others.
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I would not agree with that, but it's not a real point of contention for me either.

I do not think that God is righteous by His works. And I do not think that He chooses to act in our best interest. I believe that He acts in our best interest because it is His nature to do so.
 
elected4ever

elected4ever

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Mystery said:
I would not agree with that, but it's not a real point of contention for me either.

I do not think that God is righteous by His works. And I do not think that He chooses to act in our best interest. I believe that He acts in our best interest because it is His nature to do so.
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Haven't you heard? these guys do not believe God has a nature.
 
Mystery

Mystery

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godrulz said:
I simply said that God loves and is love. He demonstrates this love in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. It is not just a matter of being (Rom. 5:8; Jn. 3:16).
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Yes, we learned that God is love by the fact that He sent His Son to die for us, but sending His Son to die does not define Him as love, it only reveals it.
 
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godrulz

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elected4ever said:
God did not die. If He did He would not be God.
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Philippians 2:5-11; Jn. 1:1-14

You fail to understand the kenosis (emptying)/incarnation. Jesus is Deity and humanity, so He can die and be God. God does not die in His essential, uncreated spirit nature. Your denial of the triune nature of God also is a stumbling block to proper understanding.
 
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godrulz

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elected4ever said:
Haven't you heard? these guys do not believe God has a nature.
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I often talk about God's uncreated, eternal, spirit nature. There is a difference between His metaphysical, moral, and personal/spiritual attributes. We are unlike God in His absolutes of wonder. We are like God in other ways (God loves and we love).
 
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