ARCHIVE: Open Theism part 2

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Nang

Nang

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dryice said:
In Luke 4: 1-13 Jesus is tempted in 3 ways.
We read them as bread, power, and rescue by angels.

Essentially, however, they were temptations to:

Survive independant of God

Worship anything but God

or presume to test God.

Just a thought but could these three temptations be the three roots of all temptations? independence, idolitry, and self importance?
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I am bumping this post, because it made me stop and think and ponder. This is a great summary and suggestion.

Indeed, Christ achieved righteousness on all three points, compared to Adam failing exactly the same three tests.

Whenever any of us fails any of these tests, a whole myriad of carnal temptations result.

And how are we instructed to worship and remain dependent upon our Maker; except by faith (not testing God), and trusting His Word alone. (Matt. 4:4)

Good post, dryice.

Nang
 
elected4ever

elected4ever

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Nang said:
Indeed, Christ achieved righteousness on all three points, compared to Adam failing exactly the same three tests.

.

Nang
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Jesus achieved righteousness?????? :doh: A very unfortunate use of words. Jesus was righteous. He could not achieve righteousness. Jesus demonstrated His righteousness. Jesus was born of the seed of God. How could Jesus be anything less that the righteous person He was. 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Jesus was born of the seed of God in the flesh. He is the only begotten Son of God. How could Jesus ever be anything less than who and what He is. To say that Jesus achieved is to say that Jesus was not before He achieved. What was Jesus before He achieved this supposed righteousness? Did not God the Father proclaim that Jesus is His Son?
 
themuzicman

themuzicman

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dale said:
I believe God makes us willing to choose badly so as to learn first hand why He says we should or shouldn't do this or that (just one of many reasons).
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And does God make us willing via our nature, or directly determining our will?

Muz
 
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godrulz

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Garden Myst...er..ee

Is that your picture in avatar or a movie star or something?

Is sin volitional or based on a causative, Adamic nature back of the will?

Does Jesus have a will? We know He did not have a sin nature (nor are we born with one...moral depravity forms as we chose to sin; physical depravity is from birth).
 
Nang

Nang

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elected4ever said:
Jesus achieved righteousness?????? :doh: A very unfortunate use of words. Jesus was righteous. He could not achieve righteousness. Jesus demonstrated His righteousness. Jesus was born of the seed of God. How could Jesus be anything less that the righteous person He was. 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Jesus was born of the seed of God in the flesh. He is the only begotten Son of God. How could Jesus ever be anything less than who and what He is. To say that Jesus achieved is to say that Jesus was not before He achieved. What was Jesus before He achieved this supposed righteousness? Did not God the Father proclaim that Jesus is His Son?
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You are muddling the two natures of the Christ. Yes, being the Son of God, Jesus Christ is perfectly righteous in His divine nature.

However, the purpose of the incarnation of the Son of Man, was to demonstrate righteousness was achievable in the human nature, also. And this righteousness was achieved through perfect submission and obedience to God:

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered." Hebrews 5:8

Why was this demonstration of human submission, obedience and righteousness necessary, since the Son of God was already perfectly righteous in His Person and Godhood?

Because, the righteousness Jesus achieved through obedience (unto death), was representative and vicarious and worked on behalf of His elect children. It is this human righteousness, achieved under the Law, that is imputed to the sons of God.

Nang
 
elected4ever

elected4ever

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Nang said:
You are muddling the two natures of the Christ. Yes, being the Son of God, Jesus Christ is perfectly righteous in His divine nature.

However, the purpose of the incarnation of the Son of Man, was to demonstrate righteousness was achievable in the human nature, also. And this righteousness was achieved through perfect submission and obedience to God:

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered." Hebrews 5:8

Why was this demonstration of human submission, obedience and righteousness necessary, since the Son of God was already perfectly righteous in His Person and Godhood?

Because, the righteousness Jesus achieved through obedience (unto death), was representative and vicarious and worked on behalf of His elect children. It is this human righteousness, achieved under the Law, that is imputed to the sons of God.

Nang
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Jesus did not have two natures. Show me one place where the Bible says that He did. Yes, Jesus suffered the effects that sin had upon the world and on men. I am sure that He grieved for man but without the sin nature. Jesus' will was to do the will of the Father. Jesus relied on the ability of the Father. Not His own ability.

In a storm I may get wet but I do not cease to be who I am The rain does not tern me into a rain drop. Jesus coming to a world of sin did not change who Jesus was and it did not tern Him into a son of Adam that he entered the world of death that is passed upon all of Adam's seed. That place of death was placed upon Him by God that we, as Adam's seed, should not suffer the death of Adam.

He who knew no sin became sin for us that we may be made the righteousness of God in Him. Oh sin, where is your sing and Oh death where is your victory. As Jesus is today so are all of God's children. We were all born into the death of Adam and with out hope., estranged from God . Separated from the life of God and in Jesus we have received the redemption from our captivity called death and have received eternal life having also been born of the seed of God as was Jesus. We have been set free from the law of sin and death.
 
Mystery

Mystery

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patman said:
Do you understand what a witness is? It means someone was there to verify the events took place as described.
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Not necessarily. The earth is a witness of God's creative power. The message of Christ is a witness of God's love.

"Now go, write it on a tablet before them And inscribe it on a scroll, That it may serve in the time to come as a witness forever".
 
Nang

Nang

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elected4ever said:
Jesus did not have two natures. Show me one place where the Bible says that He did.
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The Scriptures refer to Jesus by two titles: "Son of God" and "Son of Man." The former accrediting Jesus Christ with divinity and the latter accrediting Jesus Christ with humanity.

The nature of a divine Being is not the same as the nature of a human being; yet, God come in the flesh, manifested both.

Here is one place in Scripture where the God/Man is unmistakenly revealed, that you cannot successfully deny:

"The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven." I Cor. 15:47

Nang
 
elected4ever

elected4ever

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Nang said:
The Scriptures refer to Jesus by two titles: "Son of God" and "Son of Man." The former accrediting Jesus Christ with divinity and the latter accrediting Jesus Christ with humanity.

The nature of a divine Being is not the same as the nature of a human being; yet, God come in the flesh, manifested both.

Here is one place in Scripture where the God/Man is unmistakenly revealed, that you cannot successfully deny:

"The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven." I Cor. 15:47

Nang
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You would do well to heed 1 Cor.15:47. Jesus was not born of the seed of Adam, was He? The curse of sin and death was not passed to Jesus through the seed of Adam, was it. The body of Jesus was conceived of God , wasn't it? The nature of Adam was not the nature of Jesus, was it?
 
Nang

Nang

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elected4ever said:
You would do well to heed 1 Cor.15:47. Jesus was not born of the seed of Adam, was He?
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Jesus Christ was born as Man, receiving a body of flesh with a nature of flesh, from a woman. Jesus Christ did not inherit a sinful human nature, but was sent by God to exemplify a perfect, sinless, human being.



The curse of sin and death was not passed to Jesus through the seed of Adam, was it.
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Correct. However, it was necessary the Christ come in likeness of sinful flesh, in order to represent His children of flesh and to be their Sin-bearer.

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil." Hebrews 2:14

The body of Jesus was conceived of God , wasn't it?
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Yes, and being born of a woman, fully human in body and nature.

The nature of Adam was not the nature of Jesus, was it?
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This is not the subject. We are discussing whether Jesus took upon Himself humanity, not whether Adam was divine.

Nang
 
Mystery

Mystery

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Mystery said:
Nang...
Is Jesus sitting at the right hand of God with two natures? If not, why not?
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"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross".
 
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