ARCHIVE: I believe religion to be obsolete
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wickwoman
New member
Thanks, however, who says I fell on "the stone." And, second, the more accurate translation is:
Luke 20:18 (NIV)
18Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."
Crushed as in broken to pieces which is more comparable to a state such as found in Psalms:
Psalm 51:17
17 The sacrifices of God are [1] a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart,
O God, you will not despise.
Which, the passage says God will not despise. Jesus is not a stumbling block to me. He's my hero.
wickwoman
New member
See my post to Jack above.
Do you mean to say "where the Bible says Jesus said you are condemned already?" If so, I can direct you to John, the gospel which many scholars believe is the least accurate of all the gospels.
John 3
17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[1] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
And, again, I will ask, who says I don't believe? You? What do you know about me? Very little.
This is from post 148 not 149 but I assume this the "challenge" you refer to above.
The phrase is directly attributed to Jesus in Acts...
Acts 20:35 I have shown you in every way, by laboring like this, that you must support the weak. And remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"
We do not have the occasion recorded in the Gospels where Jesus said these words and so are unable to directly quote Him, but Paul does directly quote Him in the same Bible in which the Gospels are located and thus if that is not enough to demonstrate that Jesus did in fact say those words then no words of Jesus can be demonstrated to have been said at all. In other words, we can say with the same confidence and on the same authority that Jesus said, "It is more blessed to give than to receive." as we can that He said ,"...he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.", that authority being the Word of God.
By the way, what was the point of this "challenge" anyway?
Resting in Him,
Clete
wickwoman
New member
Dear Hilston:
I understand your argument, however, it only seems to make believing in the "big man" in the sky even more risky. I mean, if we can't even believe the things we already think we know, how could we possibly expand that to trust a book written thousands of years ago and in a God that we can't see?
Basically, what you've said is that every solid thing we think we know now is in question and, as a result, we should throw caution to the wind and believe in a book written by people we will never meet? And, in an invisible God we have never seen nor heard?
I understand your argument, however, it only seems to make believing in the "big man" in the sky even more risky. I mean, if we can't even believe the things we already think we know, how could we possibly expand that to trust a book written thousands of years ago and in a God that we can't see?
Basically, what you've said is that every solid thing we think we know now is in question and, as a result, we should throw caution to the wind and believe in a book written by people we will never meet? And, in an invisible God we have never seen nor heard?
Paul invented this out of whole cloth. The entire "quote" is pulled from thin air. Beyond Paul's word there is no reason to believe Jesus ever said such a thing. That was the point: it's one of those things you just take for granted. But this phrase is not in the gospels and none of the apostles who actually knew Jesus ever used this in their epistles.
Paul made it up, senor.
This is truly rediculous!
If were correct the verse would read...
Luke 20:18 (WWV)
18 Everyone who falls on that stone will have a broken spirit, but he on whom it falls will have a broken and contrite heart"
Stupid! :doh:
How about stopping these idiotic games which just serve to make you look even more foolish and simply admit that you had no idea that the Bible said anything about Jesus grinding people who do not fall on Him for mercy into itty-bitty peices?
Resting in Him,
:Clete:
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This is an argument from silence at best. Luke is the author of Acts which was a sequal to the gospel which bears his name. So we not only have the testimony of Paul but of Luke, an author of a Gospel, as well. Are you suggesting that Luke made the whole story up or that he accurately recorded a fabrication of Paul's or didn't you know that Luke was the author of Acts?
Further, as I have already mentioned, Acts is in the Bible. If you reject Acts you must reject the rest of the Bible with it in which case you have no grounds upon which to claim that Jesus said any specific thing, which might be fine with you but then you would find yourself with the same problem that prodigal is having with not being able to know for sure that his nose is on his face.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Hot air and smoke. Guesswork: Jesus never said it, so you need to find an explanation. Hence this breathless stretch-your-mind post. Remember to keep the solution simple, Clete. KISS. What's simpler to believe: that Paul made it up and passed it on, or...well, actually, you don't give an alternative in this post, so I don't know what you're left with.
If that's the conclusion you've come to, then you don't understand my argument.
You don't have to see Him to know He's there and that He has judged you as worthy of judgment and condemnation. When you stand before Him, you won't have the excuse "You were invisible and Your book was really old." You know He exists and that you are accountable to Him. Rather than criticizing the Book and looking for excuses in the lives of hypocritical "christians", you should be seeking His mercy and recognize that the Book speaks of the God you already know exists.
Look at it this way: You can try to justify and validate your fundamental assumptions on your own, which gets you nowhere if you take Prodigal's tack, or you can surrender your presumed autonomy back to God and realize that only He can validate your experience and turn your assumptions into certainty.
Or you can stay the current course and make a bee-line straight to a well-deserved hell.
Ecumenicist
New member
WW,
I thought this was a great post.
Amen sister.
And BTW, glad to see you getting your heros straight
Dave
