ARCHIVE: I believe religion to be obsolete

[Ecumenicist]

Originally posted by Nineveh

So sayeth pastor dave, brother to pagan sister ww.

And brother to poison spewing ex-witch sister Nineveh, don't
forget that.

 

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by Dave Miller

And brother to poison spewing ex-witch sister Nineveh, don't
forget that.

I don't know you or your teachings, pastor dave. You want to be seen in partnership with paganism, not me. Been there, done that, repented and was saved.



granite, feel free to mind your own business

 

[Ecumenicist]

OK, I'll share my salvation experience with you.

It was about 1985, I had been suffering a heart condition which
turned out to be not dangerous, but was pretty scary nonetheless.

I was driving down the road, praying, and I asked God if there are
birds in heavan. He replied, through an overwhelming warm feeling of
peace and joy, yes there are. Then I asked, are there trees? Again,
God replied, yes there are.

THen I asked, is there anything on this earth that is not in heavan?
Is there anything I cannot do in heavan?

And God replied, yes, there is no pain nor suffering nor death in
heavan. And therefore, the only thing that cannot be done in heavan
is comforting those who suffer.

Suffice it to say, tears were streaming out of my eyes.

And that's when I dedicated my life to God, to sharing God's message
of hope and love and peace through Jesus Christ.

Dave

 

[Nineveh]

Dave

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Nineveh

I don't know you or your teachings, pastor dave. You want to be seen in partnership with paganism, not me. Been there, done that, repented and was saved.



granite, feel free to mind your own business

I think everybody needs to just chill out, take a breather...

 

[Ecumenicist]

Originally posted by granite1010

I think everybody needs to just chill out, take a breather...

Its OK Granite, just rasslin' with Satan. I'm empowered
to do this through Christ.

 

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by granite1010

I think everybody needs to just chill out, take a breather...

Have a beer while you take 5, granite

 

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by Dave Miller

Its OK Granite, just rasslin' with Satan. I'm empowered
to do this through Christ.

Is it through Christ you support ww's twisting of Scripture, too?

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Nineveh

Have a beer while you take 5, granite

Mmmm. Beer.

 

[wickwoman]

Originally posted by Hilston

If that's the conclusion you've come to, then you don't understand my argument.

You don't have to see Him to know He's there and that He has judged you as worthy of judgment and condemnation. When you stand before Him, you won't have the excuse "You were invisible and Your book was really old." You know He exists and that you are accountable to Him. Rather than criticizing the Book and looking for excuses in the lives of hypocritical "christians", you should be seeking His mercy and recognize that the Book speaks of the God you already know exists.

Look at it this way: You can try to justify and validate your fundamental assumptions on your own, which gets you nowhere if you take Prodigal's tack, or you can surrender your presumed autonomy back to God and realize that only He can validate your experience and turn your assumptions into certainty.

Or you can stay the current course and make a bee-line straight to a well-deserved hell.

Hilston you didn't answer the question. How does questioning the things we think we already understand, make an invisible God or an ancient book any more true or real?

 

[wickwoman]

Originally posted by Dave Miller

WW,

I thought this was a great post.

Amen sister.

And BTW, glad to see you getting your heros straight

Dave

Nope, sorry you're still my hero too. Of course, not up there with Jesus, but I don't think you'll feel too slighted about that right?

 

[wickwoman]

Originally posted by Dave Miller

OK, I'll share my salvation experience with you.

It was about 1985, I had been suffering a heart condition which
turned out to be not dangerous, but was pretty scary nonetheless.

I was driving down the road, praying, and I asked God if there are
birds in heavan. He replied, through an overwhelming warm feeling of
peace and joy, yes there are. Then I asked, are there trees? Again,
God replied, yes there are.

THen I asked, is there anything on this earth that is not in heavan?
Is there anything I cannot do in heavan?

And God replied, yes, there is no pain nor suffering nor death in
heavan. And therefore, the only thing that cannot be done in heavan
is comforting those who suffer.

Suffice it to say, tears were streaming out of my eyes.

And that's when I dedicated my life to God, to sharing God's message
of hope and love and peace through Jesus Christ.

Dave

I'm so glad you told me that. I really wanted to know if my Siamese cats that passed away and my German Shepard and really pretty mut cat I have now will be there.

 

[wickwoman]

Mike's Hard Lemonade, low carb, for me, please.

 

[Ecumenicist]

Originally posted by wickwoman

Nope, sorry you're still my hero too. Of course, not up there with Jesus, but I don't think you'll feel too slighted about that right?

Not at all...

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by granite1010

"And when Muslims are confronted with who the Bible says Christ is, they believe the Quran to be false. The Quran does not effect Christians in such a way to make them believe it, and deny the Bible."

Oh yes. Every Muslim who is confronted with the New Testament converts to Christianity on the spot.

Brandon, get a clue.

I never said that. In fact, I refuted the idea in the original post about Muslims converting, based on the NT. So, who needs to get a clue?

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by prodigal

Lighthouse,
(All I'm suggesting is that you might have gotten answers, but you didn't see them, because they weren't what you were looking for)

Than what good is god anyway? If all he's going to do is give me answers that I either can't see or have no use for, what good is he?

It's not His fault you can't see them. But no one ever said you couldn't use them. It just appears to me that you wouldn't want to use them.

(I didn't say it won't work for anyone else. But since others were not there, then how can it work as proof for them? All they can do is believe me, but they wouldn't have any proof.)

They wouldn't be wise to believe you. Belief in a thing without proof of the things existence is a dangerous game.

Where have I ever said otherwise?

(You can't prove there is no God. You're a hypocrite.)

I never set out to prove that god doesn't exist. I set out to show that there's no proof that he does, and therefore there's no way you can pass off your beliefs as true for anyone but yourself. That goes for you, all of christianity and every other form of god worship out there.

You said that the lack of proof of His existence is proof of His non-existence. So, yes, you are preaching that He does not exist. E.g., you're a hypocrite.

(It's not an avoidance. The proof is there. You're the one who said you don't see it. All I said is that you refuse to see it. How is that avoiding?)

It is an avoidance, LH. What proof is there? What am I missing? The existence of the creation does not explain who or what created it. It only proves that it was, at one point, created. I've accepted your challenge, and for the past twenty years I did test god. I've never refused anything because nothing has ever been offered. You say the proof is there, but it isn't. Telling me that I'm either blind or that I refuse to see it doesn't prove that proof exists, it proves that you haven't an answer to give.

You're missing everything. You refuse to open your eyes, to see what is there. And my pointing it out to you is going to do nothing, because you haven't seen it yet. Why should I believe that you'll see it when I point it out? All you'd do is refute it.

(I don't read minds. And I didn't read yours. You just come across as someone arrogant enough to be like that.)

I'm as arrogant as you are weak-minded LH.

You're an arrogant little twit who thinks God owes Him something. God doesn't owe you anything.

(See? I was right. You denied it.)

You're right, I did deny it. I deny anything that is espoused as truth with no proof to validate it. Existence is not a sign of a personal creator, it is a sign that we have been created. Nothing more, nothing less. The difference between you and I is this: You have an ancient book that explains the origin of the universe.

No. I have a god who leads me into all truth. I know Him. I've met Him.

I just don't care.

What do I care about:

People passing off the unprovable as indisputable.

And yet, that's exactly what you've been doing throughout this entire thread. Hypocrite.

I don't have anything to prove. I believe in hard work, sleep and eating. I don't have to prove that eating will sustain me, because it requires no proof. I don't have to prove that sleeping will rest my body because it requires no proof. I don't have to prove that hard work will get me paid because it requires no proof. It's just true: work and get paid, eat and be fed, sleep and be rested. That's what I believe in. Long and short, I believe in myself, my family and friends.

And I don't have to prove anything to you, either. And neither does God.

(My faith [trust] is real. Faith is not belief, prodigal. And the validity of what I beleive in no way effects people's beliefs. I haven't always believed what I believe. And I definitely don't believe what you believe. So, based on your own logic, what you beleive isn't true, either. Which is it?)

Sorry, LH, I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, maybe you can explain that last part a little bit better? I believe in myself, so I guess the answer to your question would be no.... but like I said I don't really understand the question.

You said that if what I believe was as true as I say it is, then everyone would believe it. Yet, not everyone believes what you believe. So, based on your own logic, what you believe must not be as true as you say it is. Which is it, prodigal? Or are you going to continue to be a hypocrite?

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by wickwoman

Thanks, however, who says I fell on "the stone."

No one. It is being suggested that the Stone will fall on you. Are you really that ignorant that you didn't catch that?

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by lighthouse

I never said that. In fact, I refuted the idea in the original post about Muslims converting, based on the NT. So, who needs to get a clue?

You said that Muslims confronted with the New Testament believe the Koran to be false. Do you stand by that statement or not?

 

[Hilston]

wickwoman writes:Hilston you didn't answer the question. How does questioning the things we think we already understand, make an invisible God or an ancient book any more true or real?

If you understood my argument as you claimed earlier, you wouldn't be asking this question. When you say "more true and real", are you using non-normative definitions of "true" and "real"? Because, as I understand the terms, something is either true or not; either real or not. If you can't ask a coherent question, how do you expect to get an intelligible answer?

Here's the logic:

Premise A: My own efforts to validate my cherished assumptions fail.
Premise B: The invisible God and His ancient book exclusively validate my cherished assumptions.
Conclusion: The invisible God and His ancient book are true and real.

Whether it's true or not, and whether you like it or not, that's the logic. However, I'm not suggesting that you ought to believe in God and His book on that basis. In fact, if you claimed that to be the basis of your belief, I would say it is an insufficient grounding for one's faith. But that's the logic, nonetheless. Now you might prefer to be illogical and to live as an irrational person. In which case, don't bother trying to have a comprehensible discussion about things that rely on logic and reason.

As to the grounds upon which you ought to throw yourself upon God's mercy, they are as follow: You know He exists; you know you are accountable to Him; you know He will commit both your body and soul to hell if you do not repent.

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by granite1010

You said that Muslims confronted with the New Testament believe the Koran to be false. Do you stand by that statement or not?

I never said that they all do. But many of them do.