ARCHIVE: I believe religion to be obsolete

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Jackielabby

This from a christian 'queer' (your terminology)lease...There is only one verse in the Bible that is unequivocally anti-male homosexual and that is even in questions. See the Oxford Annotated Study Bible...All of the clobber verses are not talking about homosexuality...

There are three verses that I can think of off the top of my head. Not just one. Want them?

Sodom and Gomorrah...was going to be destroyed before men tried to rape angels. Story is a valediction against rape and violence.

And all other sorts of immorality. Including sexual immorality.

Deuteronomy 23...This is talking about female and male prostitutes (shrine prostitutes). That is the proper translation of Qadesha and Qadesh...

Which verse are you referring to?

Jude...I would say that chasing after angels to rape 'em is going after some pretty strange flesh.

Could you please provide verses?

Romans 1...Speaking about the excesses caused by Pagan worship and forgetting God. Not about homosexuality, per se. It is mentioned but only in a sense of promiscuity.

Instea of just chapters, how about some specific verses.

1Corinthians...Arsenokoitai is thought to be best translated as male prostitute. There were, in Koine Greek, words for homosexual behavior. Why didn't Paul use one of the standard and well known Greek words??? Why did he make up his own??? Probably because he wasn't speaking of gays, so much as male hookers.

He made up a word? If that's what he did, then how would anyone know what it means, or doesn't mean?

Those people who say I am not a Christian because I am gay, aren't God and don't know the state of my heart and salvation. As Jesus said,"You judge by the outer appearance, but God judges the heart."

When have I ever judged you based on your appearance? And that verse says that men judge on appearance. And the Bible also tells us we have the mind of Christ. I do not judge as men judge. I judge according to the Law of God. And Jesus told us not to judge based on outward appearance, but to judge righteous judgment. And He also said, "...out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." So, if I judge someone, based on their words, I am judging their heart, because they have revealed it. Yet, I am not judging from myself. I am judging based solely on what God has said. And they are not in Christ. If they were, they would be cleansed of unrighteousness, and free of sin.

I am not promiscuous. I am a virgin. I want a serious committed relationship with a man...Which is more than I can say for most people within the body of Christ. I wonder how many times Mr. Lighthouse fornicated before he got married. I wonder if he ever gets drunk or has gotten drunk. Christians are supposed to judge the Brethren, but maybe they should clean up their own acts first. Maybe, too, they should get back to the Bible and learn a little something about the Gospel of Grace. Just a suggestion for Mr. Lighthouse.

I'm not married. I've been drunk, of my own fault, once. It snuck up on me, and I learned my lesson. My act is clean. I am in Christ, and He has cleansed me from all unrighteousness. I know I am free, and I live in that freedom. And He has given me the authority to judge.

taken from secularity.com

Can't speak for yourself?

I especially agree with:
'Those people who say I am not a Christian because I am gay, aren't God and don't know the state of my heart and salvation. As Jesus said,"You judge by the outer appearance, but God judges the heart."

And I showed how that fails, in light of context, and other scripture.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by lighthouse
Read what I said to granite.

OK.

What part of, "Don't listen to men," do you not understand? Seek God, apart from religion, doctrine and dogma. That's what I did. You can do it too.

Good advice. You're a human, right? So I'll stop listening to you...

[adds dimbulb to Ignore List™]

 

[Lighthouse]

:zakath: is a coward!

 

[Frank Ernest]

Originally posted by :mock::granite:1010

As I said: what version of the Christian God should we pay attention to? You people can't even agree on what he's saying, so why should an outsider waste his time listening to you, and trust his soul to what you say God's telling you?

:darwinsm: And you're so lazy that you are looking for some magical majority opinion to solve the problem for you. I repeat, you apetheists are interested in playing games. Should any one of you get serious, let me know.

Moreover...since even professing Christians will die and get the "I never knew you" treatment, it's entirely possible that many who are witnessing to nonbelievers--with the best intentions--are, in fact, deluded, misled, or perhaps just poseurs. So why should anyone listen to a word you people have to say?

You can't read a Bible either besides being a game player.

By the way, predominantly Christian (and white) Europe produced Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, anti-semitism, and other charming atrocities, so the seriousness of Christian believers is self-evident throughout history.

And you are full of :cow: yet again.

Moving right along...

:darwinsm: I would like to, but watching you apetheists embarrass yourselves has become really amusing.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by lighthouse

What part of, "Don't listen to men," do you not understand? Seek God, apart from religion, doctrine and dogma. That's what I did. You can do it too.

So basically I should become a gnostic. All right. That means that if I find "God" outside of Christianity you won't flip or think I've been deceived, correct?

 

[Granite]

"And you're so lazy that you are looking for some magical majority opinion to solve the problem for you."

Not really. When I was a Christian I was hardly mainstream (postmil Calvinist). I'm trying to get you people to understand the dilemma and objections non-Christians have: you keep telling unbelievers to "seek God," when even the church can't agree on what he says or what he does (or, indeed, WHY he acts the way he does). Why take advice from a member of a faith that's divided and dysfunctional?

Oh, and--you saying that Christian Europe DIDN'T produce anti-semitism, fascism, and authoritarian government? Because you may need a history refresh if you think otherwise.

What a monkey house.

 

[Rolf Ernst]

Granite1010--your linking the church with fascism is unjustified. It is true that there were churches who operated under Hitler's regime, but they were known as National Reich Churches (that's Hitler's name for those churches he took control of). He also regulated them. I have personally seen a document published by the USA which detailed Hitler's actions concerning the churches in europe under his control. There were 32 dictates they must abide by. Among them were---no one who had every preached Christ as Lord could speak from their pulpits; the bible could no longer be published in Reich countries; neither could the bible be imported into them; no proselytizing of christianity would be allowed, etc., etc.

Now, if you persist, as the enemies of Christ will persist, in saying that the "church" supported Hitler, THEN YOU GO FIND OUT ALL YOU CAN ABOUT WHAT WAS KNOWN AS THE "CONFESSING CHURCH" THROUGH THAT PERIOD, AND YOU HAVE AT LEAST THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF PERSONAL INTEGRITY IT TAKES TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED TO DEITRICH BONHOEFFER.

The deeds of wicked men, and the lives of Godly men do not belong to you to misrepresent what EITHER OF THEM DID.

EITHER INFORM YOURSELF OR SHUTUP!

 

[Granite]

I said that Christian Europe--Christianized Europe, if you like--produced fascism. I didn't say the church universally supported it. I know full well that the churches in the reich had to toe the line.

However the Catholic Church in Italy--where fascism was born, actually--were hand in glove with Il Duce, who saw the value in befriending the Vatican.

So...just chill out, Rolf.

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by granite1010

So basically I should become a gnostic. All right. That means that if I find "God" outside of Christianity you won't flip or think I've been deceived, correct?

Actually, you'd be better off seeking God apart from religion altogether. I did. When you find Him, He will lead you into all truth.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Actually, you'd be better off seeking God apart from religion altogether. I did. When you find Him, He will lead you into all truth.

That doesn't answer my question. Besides, "seeking God" apart from mankind's religions is really impossible. The Bible didn't just show up one day. Organized religion is responsible for the word of God Christians--and every other group--venerate today. Just wandering out there on your own "seeking God" sounds good on paper. And that's about it.

Anyway, doing your own thing and walking back with your own conclusions is a good way to become a full-blown nutcase, as whackjobs throughout history have proven. Joe Smith, Charles Russell, and William Miller all thought they were on to something...and they all took your advice.

 

[Lighthouse]

I took my advice, before I ever gave it to anyone else. And I later found out that a friend of mine had done the same thing. We both found God. And we both found Him to be Jesus Christ.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by lighthouse

I took my advice, before I ever gave it to anyone else. And I later found out that a friend of mine had done the same thing. We both found God. And we both found Him to be Jesus Christ.

Brandon, anyone who claims they just "found" Jesus without any exposure whatsoever to religion, the church, or the Bible beforehand is lying through their teeth. It's impossible to just stumble onto Christianity, especially in this country...unless you happen to live in a bunker.

 

[Lighthouse]

I never said I stumbled onto Christianity. I was just sick of the lies I was being told, and I wanted to know the truth. Is God really there? IF so, who is He? Is He even a He? Is Jesus true? Which religion is true? Are any of them? And a whole slew of other questions I had. I wanted to know the truth. So I sought the truth.

 

[Jackielabby]

Originally posted by Rolf Ernst

Granite1010--your linking the church with fascism is unjustified. It is true that there were churches who operated under Hitler's regime, but they were known as National Reich Churches (that's Hitler's name for those churches he took control of). He also regulated them. I have personally seen a document published by the USA which detailed Hitler's actions concerning the churches in europe under his control. There were 32 dictates they must abide by. Among them were---no one who had every preached Christ as Lord could speak from their pulpits; the bible could no longer be published in Reich countries; neither could the bible be imported into them; no proselytizing of christianity would be allowed, etc., etc.

Now, if you persist, as the enemies of Christ will persist, in saying that the "church" supported Hitler, THEN YOU GO FIND OUT ALL YOU CAN ABOUT WHAT WAS KNOWN AS THE "CONFESSING CHURCH" THROUGH THAT PERIOD, AND YOU HAVE AT LEAST THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF PERSONAL INTEGRITY IT TAKES TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED TO DEITRICH BONHOEFFER.

The deeds of wicked men, and the lives of Godly men do not belong to you to misrepresent what EITHER OF THEM DID.

EITHER INFORM YOURSELF OR SHUTUP!

I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Almighty Creator. By fighting the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."
— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
— Adolf Hitler, 1941

"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."
— Adolph Hitler, Berlin, 1933

 

[Lighthouse]

See. Hitler was a Catholic, not a Christian.

 

[Jackielabby]

What are pre-requisites for being a christian? I always thought that being a christian meant a sincere belief in Jesus Christ. When I was a catholic a long, long time ago I believed in JC and I considered myself a christian.
Please define a christian to me.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by lighthouse

See. Hitler was a Catholic, not a Christian.

Whatever it takes to avoid taking responsibility.

If Christians and their faith are good at anything, it's passing the buck.

 

[Lighthouse]

It was a joke. Would you two relax?

Of course, I don't beleive that Catholic doctrine is anywhere near Christian, but that's a different subject for another thread.

As far as responsibility, how about, "I'm not Hitler!" Therefore, I am in no way responsible for what he did. I wasn't even born when he did it.

 

[Granite]

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and acts like a duck, it's a duck.

Until, of course, it kills other ducks. Then it is clearly not a duck.

 

[Lighthouse]

You know, your avatar suits you. Because everything you say is dog:shut:.