ARCHIVE: I believe religion to be obsolete
- Thread starter prodigal
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Rolf Ernst
New member
Most people who cite the warning by Jesus to not judge lest you be judged usually miss His real point.
It is not judging in that forbidden sense to declare to people what God has stated concerning wickedness. When we speak about moral issues on the basis of God's word, we are NOT judging. We are only RELAYING what God has said. God is the one who declared the judgement against certain forms of evil. We are only His messengers.
Those who dispute our RIGHT to relay God's message are making unjust judgements against us; and they would LOVE to tyrannize us so we could not be able to declare God's word. They are tyrants. Freedom did not begin through the people of the world, but through God and His people.
It is not judging in that forbidden sense to declare to people what God has stated concerning wickedness. When we speak about moral issues on the basis of God's word, we are NOT judging. We are only RELAYING what God has said. God is the one who declared the judgement against certain forms of evil. We are only His messengers.
Those who dispute our RIGHT to relay God's message are making unjust judgements against us; and they would LOVE to tyrannize us so we could not be able to declare God's word. They are tyrants. Freedom did not begin through the people of the world, but through God and His people.
Man bless you lighthouse.
Zakath
Resident Atheist
Read it as stated, you'll see his point was simple. Whatever measure you use to judge others may end up being applied to you...
It doesn't say who will judge you; it may be men...
Then you should be prepared to be questioned and have his answers for those questions... my biggest problem is that I can't get ten Christians together in a discussion group and have them agree on any single topic that I find important. Yet they all claim to be telling me exactly what "God" says on the subject.
Perhaps some wish to tyrranize, but most just wish not to be pestered by seemingly self-righteous hypocrites as they go about their daily lives. It's bad enough we have to deal with politicians moralizing continuously to push their latest pet project down our throats... :ha:
Aimiel
Well-known member
You should get out more. Trying to get ten 'Christians' together in a discussion where they'll be real (instead of feigning religion) is next to impossible. Please keep in mind that many are called, but only few are chosen. Maybe none of the ones that you're calling to your groups have any relationship with The Lord, just as you never have. :chuckle:
Powerful stuff, granite. Exactly how I feel.
:think:
:idea: You should listen to God, and not man!
:idea: You should listen to God, and not man!
Zakath
Resident Atheist
Brilliant idea, dimbulb. :chuckle:
The biggest problem with that idea is that "he ain't talkin'!" All we've got, it seems, is countless people like you all claiming to speak for him.
And how do we unbelievers discern which of the millions claiming to speak for "God" actually are accurately doing so?
:think:
He is, you're not listening.
You don't. You unbelievers are just playing games. Haven't seen any one of you get serious yet. I take that back. Joe Stalin and Mao Tze Dong were pretty serious unbelievers.
Originally posted by Frank Ernest
He is, you're not listening.
You don't. You unbelievers are just playing games. Haven't seen any one of you get serious yet. I take that back. Joe Stalin and Mao Tze Dong were pretty serious unbelievers.
As I said: what version of the Christian God should we pay attention to? You people can't even agree on what he's saying, so why should an outsider waste his time listening to you, and trust his soul to what you say God's telling you?
Moreover...since even professing Christians will die and get the "I never knew you" treatment, it's entirely possible that many who are witnessing to nonbelievers--with the best intentions--are, in fact, deluded, misled, or perhaps just poseurs. So why should anyone listen to a word you people have to say?
By the way, predominantly Christian (and white) Europe produced Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, anti-semitism, and other charming atrocities, so the seriousness of Christian believers is self-evident throughout history.
Moving right along...
Yeah, which god, Allah, the xian god, the god of Judaism? Pray, tell us which god. I once had an on-line conversation with a southern baptist who said that allah was the false god. Your thoughts, please.
Originally posted by Frank Ernest
He is, you're not listening.
You don't. You unbelievers are just playing games. Haven't seen any one of you get serious yet. I take that back. Joe Stalin and Mao Tze Dong were pretty serious unbelievers.
And Hitler and Mussolini were both believers.
This from a christian 'queer' (your terminology)
lease...There is only one verse in the Bible that is unequivocally anti-male homosexual and that is even in questions. See the Oxford Annotated Study Bible...All of the clobber verses are not talking about homosexuality...Sodom and Gomorrah...was going to be destroyed before men tried to rape angels. Story is a valediction against rape and violence.
Deuteronomy 23...This is talking about female and male prostitutes (shrine prostitutes). That is the proper translation of Qadesha and Qadesh...
Jude...I would say that chasing after angels to rape 'em is going after some pretty strange flesh.
Romans 1...Speaking about the excesses caused by Pagan worship and forgetting God. Not about homosexuality, per se. It is mentioned but only in a sense of promiscuity.
1Corinthians...Arsenokoitai is thought to be best translated as male prostitute. There were, in Koine Greek, words for homosexual behavior. Why didn't Paul use one of the standard and well known Greek words??? Why did he make up his own??? Probably because he wasn't speaking of gays, so much as male hookers.
Those people who say I am not a Christian because I am gay, aren't God and don't know the state of my heart and salvation. As Jesus said,"You judge by the outer appearance, but God judges the heart."
I am not promiscuous. I am a virgin. I want a serious committed relationship with a man...Which is more than I can say for most people within the body of Christ. I wonder how many times Mr. Lighthouse fornicated before he got married. I wonder if he ever gets drunk or has gotten drunk. Christians are supposed to judge the Brethren, but maybe they should clean up their own acts first. Maybe, too, they should get back to the Bible and learn a little something about the Gospel of Grace. Just a suggestion for Mr. Lighthouse.
taken from secularity.com
I especially agree with:
'Those people who say I am not a Christian because I am gay, aren't God and don't know the state of my heart and salvation. As Jesus said,"You judge by the outer appearance, but God judges the heart."
Here's a challenge: once the Christian church stops killing one another, disagreeing, refusing to fellowship, and can agree on a thing or two, then maybe the rest of the world would be more inclined to listen up. Remember that American Indians politely refused to listen to missionaries after seeing what Catholics and Protestants were doing to one another on the continent: if this is what your God does, we want no part of it.
You'll also remember what the good European Christian folks did to those stiff-necked pagans...
You'll also remember what the good European Christian folks did to those stiff-necked pagans...
Theists think all gods but theirs are false.
Atheists simply don't make an exception for the last one.
Atheists simply don't make an exception for the last one.
What part of, "Don't listen to men," do you not understand? Seek God, apart from religion, doctrine and dogma. That's what I did. You can do it too.
Read what I said to granite.