Appeal to the Moderators: TOL is for Dialogue? Really?

[elohiym]

I judge a person by how they relate to people; not the beliefs they hold.

No. You judge people by the beliefs they hold.

 

[zoo22]

I judge a person by how they relate to people; not the beliefs they hold. You judge people by how politically correct they are. Racism is a huge sin to the politically correct. Evil behavior in interpersonal relationships is a huge sin to me. I agree that his racism is ugly but ,unlike you, I don't reduce a person to a single weakness. There is more to trad than his racism. We don't know what your weakness is. Pride in your own " goodness" is one that comes through here on TOL. To me, moral pride is much worse than racism and miles worse than racism that does no harm to anyone. Can you think of anyone who is possibly hurt by trads racism? I can think of someone who could be possibly hurt by that hateful diatribe you just directed at him. Only those obsessed with how morally clean they are in comparison to the "southern twits" have the ability to compose such venemous rhetoric.

Can I think of anyone who would possibly be hurt by Traditio's racism?

Are you kidding?

 

[Crucible]

No. You judge people by the beliefs they hold.

What was this conversation about, again? Oh yeah, that's right, it's about outright stringing up and condemning somebody for an alleged belief.

 

[ClimateSanity]

No. You judge people by the beliefs they hold.

No.. Again you are mistaken. I make an informed opinion on the eternal state of someone based on their beliefs. A big difference that you are oblivious to.

Even unsaved people can be decent people and saved people can be foul. The judgement I speak of is moral character. I don't judge someone's moral character based on his beliefs, for example benign racism.

 

[ClimateSanity]

What was this conversation about, again? Oh yeah, that's right, it's about outright stringing up and condemning somebody for an alleged belief.

He is a huge hypocrite.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Can I think of anyone who would possibly be hurt by Traditio's racism?

Are you kidding?

I'm not kidding. Tell me who could be harmed.

 

[elohiym]

..he was white. Jews are white.

 

[WizardofOz]

..he was white. Jews are white.

This is the downfall of Edomite paranoia, right here as a perfect example. It's not a coincidence that it's only in this day an age..

:doh:

10 photos to remind you that Jews don't fit into a stereotype and never have

 

[zoo22]

I'm not kidding. Tell me who could be harmed.

Anyone who's not white that encounters Traditio's racism. What you think, that he has to string someone up with a noose in a tree to hurt them? You don't think that he does harm saying "ni**ers smell like dead people"? Or should non white people just man up and get a thicker skin? Because meanwhile there are more import things going on like poor Trad being called a southern racist twit. But you're not recognizing that he's said he's a southern racist. He's proud to be a southern racist. (All I added was the" twit".)

Today I'd run across this that anna had posted a while back:

Once riding in old Baltimore,
Heart-filled, head-filled with glee,
I saw a Baltimorean
Keep looking straight at me.

Now I was eight and very small,
And he was no whit bigger,
And so I smiled, but he poked out
His tongue, and called me, “N****r.”

I saw the whole of Baltimore
From May until December;
Of all the things that happened there
That’s all that I remember.

--Countee Cullen, Harlem Renaissance poet.

Do you really need to be told who could be harmed?

 

[Crucible]

:doh:

10 photos to remind you that Jews don't fit into a stereotype and never have

Which makes absolutely no point at all except that Ethiopians and Iranians can be super Jewish, hinging on the appeal of Jewry through marriage, belief, or a bridging of culture.

It's just typical political correctness trying to skew reality. Jesus descended from David and likely had Italian/Latin roots as well.

Thanks for wasting some of the infinite internet space, you and that source :thumb:

It's funny how many white people are so fixated on trivializing the color of Jesus from their chains to PC :rotfl:
White people are becoming some of the softest, embarrassing people on the planet. Grow some stones, seriously

I see fellow white people consistently throw other white people under the bus. You don't see other races doing this- they all look and depend on white people destroying themselves with that.
You see, that's brown perspective, not the green you all are spewing. So if you like being mocked and tread on by other races, then do it on your own, don't drag others down with you.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

My "racism" isn't "doctrinal." The Catholic Faith tells us that all human beings are made in the image and likeness of God (contra Zoo, this doesn't mean that they look like God), and, as such, are endowed with an intrinsic dignity and worth as persons.

I don't deny these things.

If you examine the opinions of, e.g., the KKK and the Nazis, you'll actually see a "doctrinal" racism which asserts the intrinsic inferiority of other races compared to the white race. I don't assert this.

What Zoo "takes me to task for" is my asserting that all human beings are made in the image and likeness of God, but that I don't wish to be inconvenienced by the mere sight of black people.

Is that perhaps a moral failure? Perhaps. But in the same way as not wanting to be bothered by the mere sight of anyone is a moral failing. There are any number of people that you don't want to have to deal with, AnnaBenedetti, as I am sure there are any number of people that Zoo doesn't want to have to deal with.

And frankly, I find the controversy that has been "stirred up" on TOL by what I've said a little strange. It's occurs to me that this has basically become the new "rape" and new "spousal abuse" controversy on TOL.

I haven't said that anyone should be mistreated on the basis of race. All that I've said is, as a general rule, that I don't like persons of (a) certain race(s) and would prefer a state of affairs in which I didn't have to deal with them. And there are compelling reasons for this:

1. It is only "natural" to prefer things that are like, akin to or proper to oneself. The Stoics actually had a word for this: oikeiosis. It's only "natural" to have greater regard for one's family than complete strangers, for one's country than for a foreign people.

2. In addition to this, statistically speaking, the black skin of black people provides for me a convenient stamp or sign of the likelihood of diverse accompaniments of things that I simply don't like and don't want to have to deal with. If you don't like Toyota cars, then you probably wouldn't like this particular model...you might of course, but the simple fact that it bears the Toyota name alerts you to the fact that you probably won't.

Personally, I find what "accompanies" the black "brand" to be distasteful, unpleasant, etc.

Aside from the fact that the "aesthetic" is off, it also carries with it the probability of a sheer lack of class, erudition, culture, education, a tendency for socially unacceptable and inconsiderate patterns of public behavior, etc. It also indicates the probability of an entitlement mindset, a deep-seated mistrust and racist attitude against white people, an unhealthy fixation on race and racial injustice, etc.

Not to mention that it speaks to the probability of a cultural and family upbringing and way of life that simply doesn't mesh with my own. What would the average black person and I possibly have in common?

Stereotypes exist for a reason, and it's not because people just like making up stories.

3. Blacks are a problem in the US. Do you really want me to talk about the correlation between blacks and crime, civil unrest, "bad" political views, etc?

This is not, of course, to assert that any person should be mistreated or treated with anything less than dignity, respect and kindness.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I don't care how black that cashier is, how long her fingernails are, how pathetic her attempts at coherent speech are and how much of the "black attitude" she has: one should be polite, smile and wish her a good and pleasant day, and strive, as far as possible, not to make her day any worse for the transaction.

Of course, would I prefer a society in which there are only white cashiers (and, in general, no black people)? Of course.

But that's a matter of taste.

And who are you dispute with me about a matter of taste?

So, you are a "dyed in the wool" Bigot, correct?

 

[Crucible]

So, you are a "dyed in the wool" Bigot, correct?

In today's lesson, we are going to define the word 'bigot' and how in some instances it actually refers to the person stating it more so then the person who is being labeled so.

Bigot- a person with strong, unreasonable ideas about other people

Who is stating logical conclusions, and who is mindlessly throwing anyone who disagrees derogatory statements?

Let that sink in, GM.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Anyone who's not white that encounters Traditio's racism. What you think, that he has to string someone up with a noose in a tree to hurt them? You don't think that he does harm saying "ni**ers smell like dead people"? Or should non white people just man up and get a thicker skin? Because meanwhile there are more import things going on like poor Trad being called a southern racist twit. But you're not recognizing that he's said he's a southern racist. He's proud to be a southern racist. (All I added was the" twit".)

Today I'd run across this that anna had posted a while back:




Do you really need to be told who could be harmed?

Where do you get the idea that blacks who encounter trad are aware he is racist? Where has be stated he uses the N words around blacks. All I have seen is that he tries to make each encounter with black people a one that is not disagreeable. I recall his recent comments about black cashiers. Anna's post regards a child hearing the N word. I haven't seen evidence trad has done that to a black before, much less a black child .

When he says blacks smell like dead people, it is here online or to his buddies. Show me the black person who has heard trad expound like he does here.

 

[glorydaz]

My "racism" isn't "doctrinal." The Catholic Faith tells us that all human beings are made in the image and likeness of God (contra Zoo, this doesn't mean that they look like God), and, as such, are endowed with an intrinsic dignity and worth as persons.

I don't deny these things.

If you examine the opinions of, e.g., the KKK and the Nazis, you'll actually see a "doctrinal" racism which asserts the intrinsic inferiority of other races compared to the white race. I don't assert this.

The PC crowd is incapable of noting any such critical fact, Trad.
They catch the smell of blood and the feeding frenzy begins. :chew:

What Zoo "takes me to task for" is my asserting that all human beings are made in the image and likeness of God, but that I don't wish to be inconvenienced by the mere sight of black people.

Is that perhaps a moral failure? Perhaps. But in the same way as not wanting to be bothered by the mere sight of anyone is a moral failing. There are any number of people that you don't want to have to deal with, AnnaBenedetti, as I am sure there are any number of people that Zoo doesn't want to have to deal with.

What? You mean they all wouldn't like to sit down to dinner with a crack addict at a fancy restaurant?

And frankly, I find the controversy that has been "stirred up" on TOL by what I've said a little strange. It's occurs to me that this has basically become the new "rape" and new "spousal abuse" controversy on TOL.

BINGO :first:

haven't said that anyone should be mistreated on the basis of race. All that I've said is, as a general rule, that I don't like persons of (a) certain race(s) and would prefer a state of affairs in which I didn't have to deal with them. And there are compelling reasons for this:

1. It is only "natural" to prefer things that are like, akin to or proper to oneself. The Stoics actually had a word for this: oikeiosis. It's only "natural" to have greater regard for one's family than complete strangers, for one's country than for a foreign people.

2. In addition to this, statistically speaking, the black skin of black people provides for me a convenient stamp or sign of the likelihood of diverse accompaniments of things that I simply don't like and don't want to have to deal with. If you don't like Toyota cars, then you probably wouldn't like this particular model...you might of course, but the simple fact that it bears the Toyota name alerts you to the fact that you probably won't.

Personally, I find what "accompanies" the black "brand" to be distasteful, unpleasant, etc.

Aside from the fact that the "aesthetic" is off, it also carries with it the probability of a sheer lack of class, erudition, culture, education, a tendency for socially unacceptable and inconsiderate patterns of public behavior, etc. It also indicates the probability of an entitlement mindset, a deep-seated mistrust and racist attitude against white people, an unhealthy fixation on race and racial injustice, etc.

Not to mention that it speaks to the probability of a cultural and family upbringing and way of life that simply doesn't mesh with my own. What would the average black person and I possibly have in common?

You horrible horrible person. The rest of these people love all people equally, and they don't consider brands when they buy cars, and they wouldn't dream of telling their daughters to avoid the seedy longhaired bikers who come calling.

This is not, of course, to assert that any person should be mistreated or treated with anything less than dignity, respect and kindness.

But that's a matter of taste.

And who are you dispute with me about a matter of taste?

They are the PC Police, Trad. They set the standards of what you will like and by golly they will see that you like it, too. :sibbie:


God I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning!

 

[annabenedetti]

Where do you get the idea that blacks who encounter trad are aware he is racist? Where has be stated he uses the N words around blacks. All I have seen is that he tries to make each encounter with black people a one that is not disagreeable. I recall his recent comments about black cashiers. Anna's post regards a child hearing the N word. I haven't seen evidence trad has done that to a black before, much less a black child .

When he says blacks smell like dead people, it is here online or to his buddies. Show me the black person who has heard trad expound like he does here.

I am driving through a parking lot and this black lady (as I recall it) is taking her good ole' time crossing the cross-walk (as black people tend to do...they tend not to walk very fast...especially when they have the opportunity to get in the way). I don't exactly remember the context, but my sister and maybe one or two other people are in the car, who (at least at the time) didn't use the n-word. I look straight at the woman (I'm in my car, mind you, with the windows rolled up...this was for the "benefit" of those in the car with me) and find myself saying, with a giant grin on my face, (again, I don't remember the context; this may or may not have been in the context of a sentence) "[n-word]!" It just so happened that, at that very moment, she happened to look straight at me, and I'm like: "Crap! She read my lips, didn't she...?"

 

[ClimateSanity]

Yes. That's one instance. He got careless. So, he hurts people but only when his guard is down. Once he doesn't care if they hear it or not, then he becomes a hurtful person.

The lady has probably heard it her whole life. The time it hurt was probably when she was a child.

I don't know for sure but I think the black lady thinks this is to be expected as she probably views most whites as holding trads views. She is used to it and probably feels bad for trad that he could hold such hate.

 

[Tambora]

But that's a matter of taste.

Yep.

And who are you dispute with me about a matter of taste?

Beats me.
I know I haven't disputed your taste.

 

[zoo22]

Where do you get the idea that blacks who encounter trad are aware he is racist? Where has be stated he uses the N words around blacks. All I have seen is that he tries to make each encounter with black people a one that is not disagreeable. I recall his recent comments about black cashiers. Anna's post regards a child hearing the N word. I haven't seen evidence trad has done that to a black before, much less a black child .

Sorry, I don't think this is worth continuing. If you really want to stand behind Traditio's racism as "benign" that's on you, but I'm not interested in wasting my time going back and forth while you say "well, I don't have any evidence that poor young philosopher Traditio actually said "ni**er" to a black child". I think you're putting a lot of effort into defending what's been a really blatant and disgusting display from him the past days. I hope you can eventually see that Traditio's racism goes well beyond "ghetto culture", I hope you can get over being taken in by his philosopher shtick, and I hope Kendrick Lamar wins best album of the year.

 

[annabenedetti]

Yes. That's one instance. He got careless. So, he hurts people but only when his guard is down. Once he doesn't care if they hear it or not, then he becomes a hurtful person.

The lady has probably heard it her whole life. The time it hurt was probably when she was a child.

I don't know for sure but I think the black lady thinks this is to be expected as she probably views most whites as holding trads views. She is used to it and probably feels bad for trad that he could hold such hate.

Trad looked "straight at the woman" with a "giant grin on his face" and called her the n-word - that's not careless, that's INTENT.

The woman probably has heard it her whole life - and it most probably hurt her every. single. time. Do you think n-words only hurt when you're a child? They're even more cruel when said to a child, but the n-word has no age limit on hurt. Or hate. Do you think because "she's used to it" that it somehow mitigates Trad's behavior? If so, your thoughtless assumption is a part of the harm caused by overt racism and bigotry.

Frankly, the way you keep giving him the benefit of the doubt is mind-boggling, particularly when he undercuts you repeatedly by saying that yes, that is what he meant, what he thinks, what he is.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Sorry, I don't think this is worth continuing. If you really want to stand behind Traditio's racism as "benign" that's on you, but I'm not interested in wasting my time going back and forth while you say "well, I don't have any evidence that poor young philosopher Traditio actually said "ni**er" to a small black child". I think you're putting a lot of effort into defending what's been a really blatant and disgusting display from him the past days. I hope you can eventually see that Traditio's racism goes well beyond "ghetto culture", I hope you can get over being fooled by his philosopher shtick, and I hope Kendrick Lamar wins best album of the year.

Listen, if you were anyone else but one of the enforcers of political correctness on TOL, I would take your concerns more seriously. You want everyone to be concerned about the same things you are and you get outraged when we don't see things as you do. If anyone changes my mind, it will be from someone who takes themselves less seriously and isn't pompous with totalitarian tendencies.