Anyone Who Thinks Another Person Deserves To Be Raped Is A Knob

[musterion]

surely not their wives ravished!

surely not on the day of the Lord!

surely not to punish the wicked for their iniquity!

...and cattle, raped.

 

[ok doser]

...and cattle, raped.

who can argue with that?

 

[musterion]

who can argue with that?

Rebber!

 

[ok doser]

Spoiler

 

[Town Heretic]

That God allows suffering is a fact.

Who'd argue it?

The term allow is perfect...it's speaking of His permissive will.

It's misleading, given you could as easily say the murder of infants is God's permissive will.

God doesn't desire our suffering just for suffering's sake, but He allows it for good reasons.

Where I'd say suffering is part of the fallen world we inhabit and while God may intercede the workings of that world don't flow from His desire, but from our disobedience.

It's those reasons and methods that we're arguing about. Suffering itself has a great many purposes....it's good for us.

Some is, much isn't. There's nothing good in children dying from cancer or aids or starvation, but there's suffering aplenty in it.

Actually, I'm talking about what God says about reaping and sowing and calling evil what it is instead of making excuses for it.

You're over reaching. Job should tell you that. And given I'm not arguing about making excuses for evil or calling evil anything else I'll let someone else answer that part if they feel otherwise about it.

So telling someone the truth shouldn't be done because we might be tempted to judge unjustly?

Since I've never argued in the course of this conversation for anything that resembles that remark I don't feel obligated to defend that position. Again, someone who takes that position might want to step in and do so.

Everything invites error in this life, but that does not mean we should stop living life.

You and these blunderbuss declarations. No, everything doesn't invite error. Now try to justify your claim in parts. I'm curious as to why you think that's so.

Job's friends understood that, in most cases, suffering comes on those who have done wrong.

They were wrong. And if they could be wrong about a man so upright among his people that God considered him an example, then how are we to trust our judgment on the matter? Better to let God handle it and reserve our assumptions for our own conduct.

In the case of a lewd woman, or in the case of a rapist, they should be told that they can be sure their sins will find them out.

True of anyone absent grace.

That they deserve to reap the rewards of their immoral acts,

The difference is over what that judgement is and what it can't be if we're going to pin it to the lapel of God's robes. Rape can't be penned there.

and that God will most probably see that they do. He is JUST in all respects. Just because He doesn't always give us what we deserve, doesn't mean He most often doesn't allow us to suffer for our wrong doing. Clearly, such verses as this are talking about being punished in this life....for our evil deeds.

As clearly many an evil man died in comfort and many a good man died in strife and want.

Ezra 9:13
And after all that is come upon us for our evil deeds, and for our great trespass, seeing that thou our God hast punished us less than our iniquities deserve, and hast given us such deliverance as this;​

God absolutely punishes and corrects those he loves. He was hard on His chosen people and they gave Him reason to be.

I'm not ignoring the rest of your post, but will have to respond a little at a time.

Not a problem. I'm mostly spending time by the phone, coordinating people and waiting on a schedule for the morning.

 

[ClimateSanity]

i don't know what an antheist is :idunno:

maybe it's like a "stint"



Surely He doesn't allow it, rape being "inherently sinful", right?

He doesn't have to command the Romans to rape. He knew they would and so he allowed the Romans to conquer the area. He knew they would rape and so it fit in with his plan to punish the nation. If rape was inherently sinful, God would have used some other army to do his job for him.

 

[musterion]

Doser Johnson's right about Glory Johnson's being right.

- Musty Johnson

 

[ok doser]

i found it!


an antheist:

Spoiler

:think: now what the deuce was town on about?

 

[Town Heretic]

i don't know what an antheist is :idunno:

We'll add it to the ponderous list. Well, the next time an errant keystroke stops you cold try using a dictionary until most of the letters match. lain: I've been a little distracted today, as you know. So people are just going to have to work around that sort of error, assuming it's a problem for anyone else.

maybe it's like a "stint"

Maybe you shouldn't make a joke about that.

For those of you who don't know, he's referencing another keystroke error I made discussing my father's heart attack yesterday and the things that are following it today, which is mostly why I'm distracted.

That's who and how this fellow is.

 

[glorydaz]

Then set out how, in particular. Anyone can slap a word on something. Point out the humanism in it. Don't tell me is feels or smacks or seems. If it's reasonable and true you should sustain it in particulars. If you find you can't then you'll know you're mistaken on the point (hopefully happily).

A humanist thinks of himself as a god, and judges all things from his point of view....man being the ultimate judge in any particular. What seems right to the humanist is quite often far removed from what is right and just according to Almighty God. They often say, God would never....." The humanist has a lot of trouble with any form of punishment coming from God, because if man was god he'd be able to say stripping deserves no punishment in this life at all. His own judgments would be the standard for all things. Unfortunately, one man will say thus and so is wrong and the next man will not agree.

But you get to judge who is raped for their transgressions? Else, where did I do that again? I'm advising against approaching suffering in that fashion at all.

No, I don't get to judge who is raped for their transgressions. God decides that, and I can look at the results of what happens and recognize what is obvious to most right thinking people. Is the child that is raped being punished....no. Is the stripper that is raped being punished. Yes. I use those two examples because they are obvious and require only basic common sense. Because I believe what God said about our reaping what we sow, I don't try to deny what is right before my very eyes.

You'll have to point out, particularly, where you think I've done that because that's not my methodology. I prefer to examine, conclude and illustrate and if I've left out support I'll happily set it right. What parameters have I set and where? Let's look at it together.

I can only address each point as it comes up. It's way beyond my pay grade to do more than that.

I'm answering that "resulted" is wrong-headed. A woman lives alone. She goes to work in a department store and comes home every evening. Someone watches her, notes her pattern and her solitary life and uses that knowledge to rape her. You might find her life more appropriate, but someone else could easily say that were she married or living at home it wouldn't have happened. Her own selfish insistence on a life apart "resulted" in her rape.

And they'd be just as wrong as you are, only more obviously so.

I wouldn't even attempt to address every single rape case that ever was as to whether they were being punished for some wrong doing or if God was allowing the rape to happen for some other purpose. I could only come up with one obvious case that the most simple among us should be able to clearly see, and that was a stripper. It's obvious. That we don't always see what God's purposes are does not mean they aren't being served.

 

[ok doser]

We'll add it to the ponderous list. Well, the next time an errant keystroke stops you cold try using a dictionary until most of the letters match. lain: I've been a little distracted today, as you know. So people are just going to have to work around that sort of error, assuming it's a problem for anyone else.


Maybe you shouldn't make a joke about that.

For those of you who don't know, he's referencing another keystroke error I made discussing my father's heart attack yesterday and the things that are following it today, which is mostly why I'm distracted.

That's who and how this fellow is.

gosh, aren't you a whiny little girl? :chuckle:


if you can't take it, unplug for awhile


seriously - why are you wasting time here when your family needs you?

 

[ok doser]

I wouldn't even attempt to address every single rape case that ever was as to whether they were being punished for some wrong doing or if God was allowing the rape to happen for some other purpose. I could only come up with one obvious case that the most simple among us should be able to clearly see, and that was a stripper. It's obvious. That we don't always see what God's purposes are does not mean they aren't being served.

he's playing the game we've seen already - because there exist cases of rape where the woman clearly is not at fault, no woman should be found at fault for her behavior no matter how perverted


you know - because we aren't supposed to judge or something

 

[ok doser]

A stint for a stent would be quite a stunt. I think Harry Dean Stanton said that.

didn't he sing Indiana Wants Me?

...

 

[lifeisgood]

you know - because we aren't supposed to judge or something

I think it went something like this:
Matthew 7:2 --- For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

 

[musterion]

I think it went something like this:
Matthew 7:2 --- For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Why did you leave out the part where He instructed judging with righteous judgment?

 

[ok doser]

I think it went something like this:
Matthew 7:2 --- For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

so if i judge strippers, as long as i don't strip it's all good, right?

 

[ok doser]

Why did you leave out the part where He instructed judging with righteous judgment?

they always do

 

[musterion]

so if i judge strippers, as long as i don't strip it's all good, right?

Please don't.

 

[ok doser]

which one?

 

[musterion]

which one?

A little from column A, a little from column B. Mostly B.