"|all you have to do is believe in Jesus".. Huh?

[Bright Raven]

Is Jesus the God in the Old Testament?

lol

He is mentioned often in the OT but He is NOT the Father. Where do you get this garbage.

 

[God's Truth]

I believe the same.

Then stop attacking me for saying we have to obey.

 

[God's Truth]

He is mentioned often in the OT but He is NOT the Father. Where do you get this garbage.

God the Father is "mentioned" in the Old Testament? lol

Is it God the Father in the Old Testament or not?

 

[HisServant]

Jesus is the same God as God the Father in the Old Testament. You just have no understanding, so you blasphemy things you do not understand.

Hardly... if he is the same person, he has quite the split personality.

1Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

5In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6Who, being in very naturea God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very natureb of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[j4jesus09]

That means we did not have to do the ceremonial works.

We did not talk God into it, for God made the plan for salvation to be through Jesus before He created the world.

No this means salvation is not of ourselves. Periord. Let's ready the 1st seven scriptures to put this statement in context.

1. As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

What were we? Dead.

2. in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

What did we used to do? What we see the world doing now? What caused them to be this way. The spirit of disobedience.

3.All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our fles and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

Simple, we were all that way.

4. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,

God is SO loving, and merciful to us.

5. made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

God MADE us alive with Christ when were DEAD IN TRANSGRESSIONS(not once we started being obedient) it is by grace we have been saved. What grace are we receiving if we make ourselves alive what did God do? If we make ourselves alive why did Christ have to come? We can do it ourselves. What is the purpose of CHRIST?

6. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Once again God raising us up. We are not raising ourselves.

7. in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

Once again so that GOD may get the glory in how kind He is toward us by giving us Christ Jesus.

8. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

So that we can't boast about a thing. Not even our obedience to God. It's because of Christ doing it that we can obtain to real heart obedience and not just outwardly. Now where was ceremonial works in the context we just read?

 

[j4jesus09]

It sounds as if you agree with me.

As for sinning after I have been saved...I do what Jesus says, and that is I worked out my salvation with trembling and fear, if I did sin I confess and repent of it.

I agree with you on repentance. Of course. That should be a daily thing. I agree to work out your own salvation with fear, which Solomon describes in the proverbs is to HATE EVIL and wickedness. Reverence God as holy. This is a declaration to you and I as believers of God and Christ Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

Hardly... if he is the same person, he has quite the split personality.

So you think God and Jesus are really different? lol

 

[God's Truth]

No this means salvation is not of ourselves. Periord. Let's ready the 1st seven scriptures to put this statement in context.

Jesus saves us all on our own, and he chooses to save those who believe and obey him. See John 14:23, and Acts 5:32.

1. As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

What were we? Dead.

That scripture is about how the Gentiles, who were dead in their sins did not have to get circumcised before Jesus saved them.

See Colossians 2:13.

 

[God's Truth]

I agree with you on repentance. Of course. That should be a daily thing. I agree to work out your own salvation with fear, which Solomon describes in the proverbs is to HATE EVIL and wickedness. Reverence God as holy. This is a declaration to you and I as believers of God and Christ Jesus.

I am glad you agree; however, many here do NOT believe that. They say repent does NOT mean repent of sins. They say we do not have to obey to be saved, or to stay saved.

 

[j4jesus09]

Don't tell me what they are debating. I have been debating them for three years; and, you even PROVED that you believe just like them when you said we ONLY HAVE TO HAVE FAITH.

Your faith will show your works. Period

That does not make sense.

It makes sense you want me to believe you or else I'm a fool. You are not the bible but you can quote the bible sure. Do you know what it means though. Obviously, you seem to think God is talking to the, mute, people that can't see or hear etc. But I'm hear to show you that God is more than likely speaking to us that can see, hear, and talk. That is normal human function. That does not mean he leaves the deaf and mute our because he can see past the human senses. I mean you really belittle God and how he has created us. MY GOODNESS!

They do NOT.

We have to obey Jesus to get saved, and to stay saved. People here go against me all the time for saying that.

Do you know why Jesus said if you love me you will obey me? It's to show who loves him. Loving is submitting to one another. Do you know that the bible says wives obey your husbands as unto the Lord?
Jesus is pointing out to those that say they love Jesus but don't think they have to live like he told them. What ways did Jesus tell us we need to live? Which will lead me into your next question.

What does that have to do with what we are talking about? You are the one who went against me for saying we have to obey Jesus to be saved.

I asked you what did JESUS say. What one thing can you point out that HE said that a person is not being obedient to?

You are the one who did not understand about plucking out your eye and cutting off your hand.

No, I do understand. I said if you have commited a sin more than ONCE you should have cut your eye out. Have you ever looked at something more than once and knew it wasn't right? So on the 2nd time you should have cut your eye out. You may say well I repented of it or confessed it. If you did the first time but sinned again a 2nd you may do it a 3rd. Cut it out, according to what Jesus said if you take it literally. No, he is meaning whatever the sin is cut yourself totally off from it. Don't even play or get near the thing that may cause you to sin. If you love women, stay out of a strip club!

 

[j4jesus09]

Then stop attacking me for saying we have to obey.

I did not say I believe the same as you. Do you read my comments GT? LOL. I said I believe I'm telling you what the bible says. I know you are paying attention to me.

 

[j4jesus09]

Is Jesus the God in the Old Testament?

lol

question. Who spoke from heaven to Jesus and said this is my beloved son hear him?

 

[Bright Raven]

God the Father is "mentioned" in the Old Testament? lol

Is it God the Father in the Old Testament or not?

This is the God of the OT;

Deuteronomy 6:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

 

[j4jesus09]

Jesus saves us all on our own, and he chooses to save those who believe and obey him. See John 14:23, and Acts 5:32.

It just perplexes me how we put so much emphasis in man coming to grips with obeying Jesus. Man does not know all things, weak, emotional, and just plain dumb at times. God knows all things, is the opposite of weak and never dumb. Can we give God a little more credit in planning out things and give man no credit at all?

That scripture is about how the Gentiles, who were dead in their sins did not have to get circumcised before Jesus saved them.

See Colossians 2:13.

Colossians 2:13 is giving more information on what was just said in previous verses. 11 says we were circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ.

See Christ circumcised us. So he makes the point that while you were dead in your sins and uncircumcision of the flesh which basically means you were messed up completely, God made you alive. Now how did we respond to Jesus when we were dead in sins?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

That scripture is about how the Gentiles, who were dead in their sins did not have to get circumcised before Jesus saved them.

See Colossians 2:13.

No way.

Now pay attention woman.

Paul is speaking to all the Christians at Ephesus, circumcised and uncircumcised together.

Not only that, but Paul who was circumcised included himself.

Ephesians 2:3 KJV


3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

 

[j4jesus09]

I am glad you agree; however, many here do NOT believe that. They say repent does NOT mean repent of sins. They say we do not have to obey to be saved, or to stay saved.

I'm not here to be against you. If they don't think we should repent of sins then they don't either sin anymore or they don't know what repent means. Being saved means you will obey GT. Obedience will not save you. That's why the Jews weren't saved. They didn't have what was needed on the inside to obey. It was only outwardly. It's more like you will stay saved not if you obey me, but you will obey me. That's apart of salvation. That's the package. True salvation breeds obedience, but not only that, love, patience, kindness, long suffering, temperance, and soooo much more. God is too good not to get the worse sinner's attention. God is a warrior! Every knee will bow and confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father!

 

[God's Truth]

This is the God of the OT;

Deuteronomy 6:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Is that God the Father?

I know, but let us see if you do.

 

[God's Truth]

question. Who spoke from heaven to Jesus and said this is my beloved son hear him?

God who lives in unapproachable light.

 

[God's Truth]

I'm not here to be against you. If they don't think we should repent of sins then they don't either sin anymore or they don't know what repent means. Being saved means you will obey GT. Obedience will not save you. That's why the Jews weren't saved.

You are all confused. You are very mixed up.

Some of the Jews did not have faith that Jesus' blood cleans them.

They didn't have what was needed on the inside to obey. It was only outwardly.

There is never a wrong way to obey.

It's more like you will stay saved not if you obey me, but you will obey me. That's apart of salvation. That's the package. True salvation breeds obedience,

God does not force us to obey. There are people who believe but do not obey.

 

[God's Truth]

No way.

Now pay attention woman.

Paul is speaking to all the Christians at Ephesus, circumcised and uncircumcised together.

Not only that, but Paul who was circumcised included himself.

Ephesians 2:3 KJV


3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Those who were dead in their sins were the Gentiles.

The Jews had the works, the Ceremonial laws to clean themselves. The Gentiles did not. The Gentiles were dead in their sins, and in their uncircumcised flesh. Jesus did not make them get circumcised in the flesh first before he saved them, for we are made clean by faith in his blood. However, we still have to obey Jesus. We still have to do what he says. We still have to do right and abstain from evil.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.



As for Paul, he acted like those without the law to win them over.

1 Corinthians 9:21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law(though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.