"|all you have to do is believe in Jesus".. Huh?

[glorydaz]

Because I can't find a Christian to discuss with, I will leave it there.

Oh, discuss means someone who agrees with you and doesn't try to correct you. Got it. :thumb:

 

[God's Truth]

Paul never ever tells people what glorydaz and many others claim he says. Paul does not tell anyone they are saved by faith alone without obedience.

The works Paul is speaking of that do not save are the ceremonial works the Jews used to have to do...it was the works that the Gentiles did not do.

The Jews did works to clean themselves, just to worship God in the temple. Now Jesus' blood cleans us.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Paul never ever tells people what glorydaz and many others claim he says. Paul does not tell anyone they are saved by faith alone without obedience.

The works Paul is speaking of that do not save are the ceremonial works the Jews used to have to do...it was the works that the Gentiles did not do.

The Jews did works to clean themselves, just to worship God in the temple. Now Jesus' blood cleans us.

Are you a robot or answering machine? You say the same thing
over and over and over again, Ad-nauseam.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I never said Paul doesn't speak of good deeds. But he speaks pejoratively of 'good works' in regards to people thinking they will be saved by subscribing to them; by that technical phrase he refers to the identifying markers of Judaism that were being pushed on Gentile converts. But when he and other writers are mentioning (positively) good actions, the phrase should be rendered 'good deeds' (or something similar (and not confused with the 'good works' considered injurious to saving faith.

Try to respond graciously.

Why?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

What does that even mean?

Glorydaz means that, you sound like ANOTHER poster who
doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Wow. Utterly sinful response. Try to exhibit some love and grace.

In fact, that poster only expressed what James did only using slightly different terminology. Luther understood what James was saying and didn't try to reconcile it to what he thought Paul was saying (as many do today), hence he called James' letter an epistle of straw.

But the fact is that the Bible says that faith without deeds cannot save you, because a faith without deeds is dead.

The good works that faith doesn't need are the works of the Law that many Judaizers claimed converts needed; by good works (that are not needed alongside faith) Paul was not referring to good (or righteous) deeds. Once this distinction is grasped, the issue becomes clearer.

But please grow past using such invective against people you disagree with. Those are not Christian words, certainly not mature ones.

You sound like another, "Worker type."

 

[God's Truth]

Are you a robot or answering machine? You say the same thing
over and over and over again, Ad-nauseam.

I don't get tired of speaking God's Truth.


Jeremiah 20:9 But if I say, "I will not mention his word or speak anymore in his name," his word is in my heart like a fire, a fire shut up in my bones. I am weary of holding it in; indeed, I cannot.

 

[turbosixx]

Because of the relationship between God and Abraham. God made
promises to Abraham and his children Israel. One of those promises
was to send the Messiah. So, Jesus (the promised Messiah) was sent
first, to the House of Israel, the lost sheep of Israel. (The Chosen)

Later, God provides The Apostle Paul with the Grace Gospel, specifically,
to the gentiles. Today however, The Grace Gospel (Paul's Gospel) is
for Jew and gentile alike.

If the Jews were going to end up under grace what was the purpose of the kingdom message?

 

[turbosixx]

The "dividing line" certainly is not in what a man says he does or what he claims. It's whether a man has believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and His work on the cross.

If a man "must live" (according to your chosen translation) as Jesus did, then Jesus didn't need to come and die for us. We could just work really hard to be saved.

You need to stop and ask yourself why you keep seeing LOSS in every verse. What are you afraid of? That you won't measure up? Here's a newsflash....none of us will ever measure up. Perhaps you need to look to what our RISEN LORD revealed to the Apostle Paul. There you will see that salvation is a gift man cannot earn and does not merit in any way.

I've been thinking about your question, "what are you afraid of?" I'm afraid of being like Saul. He had a zeal for God and thought he was doing God's will, but was putting Christians to death. He did it with a clear conscience but he was wrong.

Satan appeals to what we want and takes God's word and changes it just enough to deceive.
God said, "for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Gen. 2:17
Satan said, “You will not certainly die,” Gen. 3:4
Satan added one little word to deceive.

That is what I see today. All it takes is one added word or taking words out. For example:

"not by faith alone"
"by faith alone"

"baptism now saves you"
"baptism can't save you"

"Whoever believes will be saved"
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"

One is a direct quote from the bible, the other is not.

It's easy to see all the confusion and everyone believes their understanding of truth is based on scripture. If we have to change anything that is written to fit our understanding, are we really following truth?

 

[Ben Masada]

I've been thinking about your question, "what are you afraid of?" I'm afraid of being like Saul. He had a zeal for God and thought he was doing God's will, but was putting Christians to death. He did it with a clear conscience but he was wrong.

If all your concern about Paul was because he was putting Christians to death, you can rest your mind because Paul never persecuted a single Christian in all of his life. Then, it does not make sense that the founder of a religion should persecute the adepts. Paul was the founder of Christianity if you read Acts 11:26 and since then, there was no Christian in the world. What Paul was persecuting in the beginning of his carrier was the Sect of the Nazarenes in the synagogues of Damascus. The Sect of the Nazarenes was a Jewish Sect organized by the apostles of Jesus in Jerusalem. It was also called the "New Way" for being the most recent sect of Judaism in the First Century. (Acts 9:1,2)

 

[Right Divider]

I've been thinking about your question, "what are you afraid of?" I'm afraid of being like Saul. He had a zeal for God and thought he was doing God's will, but was putting Christians to death. He did it with a clear conscience but he was wrong.

Satan appeals to what we want and takes God's word and changes it just enough to deceive.
God said, "for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Gen. 2:17
Satan said, “You will not certainly die,” Gen. 3:4
Satan added one little word to deceive.

That is what I see today. All it takes is one added word or taking words out. For example:

"not by faith alone"
"by faith alone"

"baptism now saves you"
"baptism can't save you"

"Whoever believes will be saved"
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"

One is a direct quote from the bible, the other is not.

It's easy to see all the confusion and everyone believes their understanding of truth is based on scripture. If we have to change anything that is written to fit our understanding, are we really following truth?

You must be living in and tending a garden. Probably building an ark as well.

Just because something is IN THE BIBLE does not mean that it is CURRENTLY the thing to do.

There is a little thing called CONTEXT of which you apparently have no understanding.

Mat 16:20 KJV Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
​

 

[Interplanner]

You must be living in and tending a garden. Probably building an ark as well.

Just because something is IN THE BIBLE does not mean that it is CURRENTLY the thing to do.

There is a little thing called CONTEXT of which you apparently have no understanding.

Mat 16:20 KJV Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
​

Faith is only as good as its object. There is no value to faith that has no object or to 'faith in faith/decision.'

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Wow. Utterly sinful response. Try to exhibit some love and grace.

In fact, that poster only expressed what James did only using slightly different terminology. Luther understood what James was saying and didn't try to reconcile it to what he thought Paul was saying (as many do today), hence he called James' letter an epistle of straw.

But the fact is that the Bible says that faith without deeds cannot save you, because a faith without deeds is dead.

The good works that faith doesn't need are the works of the Law that many Judaizers claimed converts needed; by good works (that are not needed alongside faith) Paul was not referring to good (or righteous) deeds. Once this distinction is grasped, the issue becomes clearer.

But please grow past using such invective against people you disagree with. Those are not Christian words, certainly not mature ones.

You kind of sound like the poster, "GodsTruth."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Are you God's UNtruth in disguise? :think:

That's what I just said this morning. It sure sounds like her non-sense.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It means you are preaching the same nonsense God's UNtruth does. Show me where Paul is talking about the works law being works of righteousness. Read it....read it right here. I see no circumcision or various washings. I do see the "washing of regeneration"....nothing there concerning the law.

Titus 3:1-4
Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,​

Titus 3:5-6
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;​

Yep

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I never said Paul doesn't speak of good deeds. But he speaks pejoratively of 'good works' in regards to people thinking they will be saved by subscribing to them; by that technical phrase he refers to the identifying markers of Judaism that were being pushed on Gentile converts. But when he and other writers are mentioning (positively) good actions, the phrase should be rendered 'good deeds' (or something similar (and not confused with the 'good works' considered injurious to saving faith.

Try to respond graciously.

If ya can't take the heat, get outta Dodge.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Oh, discuss means someone who agrees with you and doesn't try to correct you. Got it. :thumb:

Yep!

 

[Right Divider]

Faith is only as good as its object. There is no value to faith that has no object or to 'faith in faith/decision.'

I have no idea how your reply relates to the post to which it replies.

 

[God's Truth]

Every time Paul says not of by works, the ceremonial works are close by, in particularly the CIRCUMCISION of the flesh. I can prove that too you easily.

Paul was not ever saying we are saved by faith and not obedience!

 

[God's Truth]

Paul never ever says we are saved by faith without obedience.

Who would ever accept such a thing?