The poll question is about salvation.
ECT Addiction/habitual sin Salvation Hope? No Hope?
- Thread starter Lon
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A ruined life must mean something different to you. No big deal.
elohiym
Well-known member
elohiym
Well-known member
Then what is the point of Hebrews 10:26-29 or 1 John 3:6-10? How does one get around ideas like 1 John 4:20 or Galatians 5:19-21?
scare tactics - people that do those things are not Christians.
elohiym
Well-known member
Then, logically, option number 4 cannot be true.
The point of our Lord's earthly ministry, today, is His Church, and His Church teaches us definitively what we are to confess and believe, and it's not our own personal readings of Scripture when it conflicts with what our Magisterium teaches.
Simply. "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason," I'm not going to allow my conscience to be manipulated or bound. Scripture says that Peter is given the keys to the kingdom, the power to bind and to loose. His legacy, the Holy See, teaches more holistically concerning what to do with moral offenses.
elohiym
Well-known member
What is the state of one who commits moral offenses? The scriptures teach such a person is spiritually dead in sin. Such a person cannot be in Christ at the same time (1Jn 3:6).
elohiym
Well-known member
The Magisterium distinguishes between grave matter and mortal/fatal sin. In order for grave moral offense to be mortal sin, the offense must be perpetuated in a similar way to when we validly and legally enter into a contract; namely completely freely. One who freely chooses to commit grave moral errors is guilty of mortal sin, but there are a variety of named reasons for why grave moral errors might not be entered into freely, and in such cases, the perpetrator is not spiritually dead in sin, and can be in Christ at the same time.
elohiym
Well-known member
I have to stick to the scriptures, friend. :e4e:
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I selected the last option.
"Other". Sigh. (some of you will get it.
)Christian perfectionism is not possible. Christians struggle with habitual sin. That said, if habitual sin indicates absence of struggle, then no Christian can commit such a thing. From some translations using pattern of sinning note this is also referred to as habitual sin. That is, the same items that we are coming before the Lord over and over and over again, repenting over, and pleading to God for His mercy and echoing our desire to eliminate the sin. It's habitual sin. Clearly, this does not describe the unbeliever. The unbeliever would be in habitual sin, but would carry no sorrow for that sin, no struggle concerning that sin, said struggle including how it has displeased God, Who is infinitely worthy of our worship and obedience. Accordingly, it is not a matter of how frequently, but rather it is a matter of whether you are sorrowful of your sin and repentant of your sin (repentance necessarily includes seeking God's forgiveness).
There is a chasm of difference between a person who struggles against sin because he or she is not yet completely free from indwelling sin and another person who practices sin without concern. Sadly, the modern evangelical notion of the "carnal Christian" is a good example of very wrong theology; wherein they conclude that a person can continue to live in such a way that his or her soul is not yet yielded to Christ but he or she has notionally accepted Christ as his Lord. They practice sin without concern because they assume that they have a status within the Christian religion that gives them a pass to do so. James indicates a similar type of attitude in his epistle speaking about a man who claims to have faith but possesses none of the fruit which would attend genuine faith. The man is but a shell of profession, without actual possession. All talk.
A more pertinent question is "What about sin defines the believer or the unbeliever?"
If a man is in Christ then he is a new creation and sin no longer enslaves him. He is united to Christ in His death to sin and resurrection to life. A man who is not in Christ is still enslaved to sin and can do nothing but sin more or sin less.
A man who is in Christ is enslaved to Christ and struggles against sin which no longer defines or enslaves him. John, himself, recognizes this distinction because he says earlier in his first epistle that the man who claims he does not sin does not have Christ.
In the end, the difference is whether or not one is in Christ. A man in Christ is not defined by sin but by his union with Christ and all the saving benefits including how Christ will purify and sanctify him. A man who has not Christ is enslaved to sin.
Christians sin. Christians struggle with habitual sin. Christians, in their repentance, seek and are granted forgiveness for their particular habitual sin. Christians do not sin with regular, impenitent hubris as do the nonbelievers.
Consider Scripture once more. Therein we read that David did not quite struggle with his sin until a year after he lived and indulged in it. Was he unaware that adultery and murder were wrong? No. David's sinful nature overcame him for a long season of time and he was hardened towards the ways of righteousness. The influence of the Spirit of holiness upon him was lessened considerably during that time. Yet, that same Spirit was increased upon him again during Nathan's visit.
We believers have this waxing and waning of the Spirit's influence that ever accompanies the continual influence of the sin within us. While sanctification may not always appear progressive in a believer (e.g., David), nevertheless it will be continual and never cease. We must be careful here such that we are not giving licence to sin in discussing these things, and a way to excuse it. Rather, we wish to comfort the conscience against despair when a person sees that their case does not go according to the way they think their sanctification ought to play out. Our sanctification is in the Our Lord's hands, and He will give seasons of greater influence or lesser influence, as He sees fit, in order to develop our faith. We must attend to prayer for His working upon us, with humility, and acknowledge our continual dependence upon Him to do the work of sanctification within us.
AMR
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The Magisterium are the successors of the Apostles of the Scripture. 1st Timothy 5:22 talks about the sacrament of Holy Orders, through which the Church is gifted by our Lord with a new priest, and/or, most especially, a new bishop, which the Apostles were the epitome, and some New Testament characters like Timothy and Titus and Luke and Mark were, because they were not Apostles, but they were, bishops. The Magisterium are the bishops, and all of them, and their test for orthodoxy is simply whether or not they are "in communion with" the successor of Peter, who resides over the See of Rome, the Holy See, the pope, who succeeds Peter, who died in Rome, as the supreme pastor of the whole (catholic) Church, when he was crucified, upside down, by his own request, the upside-down cross being Peter's cross. The bishops by virtue of not only their theological acumen, which is substantial, but also because many of them know by heart the whole Apostolic tradition, which guarantees that the pope will always be supported by a supermajority of bishops in any matter requiring his ex cathedra charism of infallibility in teaching matters of faith, doctrine and morals. The bishops always teach infallibly, as did the Apostles. This is a gift from our Lord. His living teaching presence. I stick to Scripture too, and the Apostles are in Scripture, and Holy Orders is in Scripture, so today's Magisterium are also in Scripture.
PureX
Well-known member
Addictions are by definition no longer a choice that can be "de-selected" by the addict. Thus they are trapped, permanently, unless they can find 'outside' help. But for that outside help to work, they have to be willing to give up the idea of self-control for a while, and let someone or something else be in control of their lives.
This is where spiritual healing begins: with the addict's decision to turn his/her own life and will over to God, so that God can renew the addict and show him/her how to live as a non-addicted person. And God will do that through the guidance of His Holy Spirit acting in and working on the addict through his fellow believers.
It's a difficult process, because none of us likes to give up our will and our feeling of autonomy. But once we realize we have no other options, we can do it, and it does work so long as the addict is being assisted by genuine fellow Christians.
This is where spiritual healing begins: with the addict's decision to turn his/her own life and will over to God, so that God can renew the addict and show him/her how to live as a non-addicted person. And God will do that through the guidance of His Holy Spirit acting in and working on the addict through his fellow believers.
It's a difficult process, because none of us likes to give up our will and our feeling of autonomy. But once we realize we have no other options, we can do it, and it does work so long as the addict is being assisted by genuine fellow Christians.
well said.
Well said.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Well, that is not always the case. There are many instances where people have determined in their heart that it be so, and it is so. Life long tobacco habits, life long alcohol habits, life long over-eating habits, I've witnessed them all. Now, some harder drugs like heroin or meth I can't say I've seen those. Perhaps you are talking about those.
3 things listed are those under circumcision. They do not apply to me. Galatians 5 is uncircumcision and is about behavior after salvation while dead to sin.
Shame on you.