A portrait of Jesus in a school? Seriously?

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I agree with FFRF but for a completely different reason than they say. The civil magistrate is COMMANDED to rid the land of publicly broadcasted images of Christ because they are 2nd commandment violating idols.

Exactly so.

Spoiler

From the WLC
Q. 107. Which is the second commandment?

A. The second commandment is, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Ex. 20:4-6.

Q. 108. What are the duties required in the second commandment?

A. The duties required in the second commandment are, the receiving, ob- serving, and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God hath instituted in his Word; particularly prayer and thanksgiving in the name of Christ; the reading, preaching, and hearing of the Word; the admin- istration and receiving of the sacraments; church government and discipline; the ministry and maintenance thereof; religious fasting; swearing by the name of God, and vowing unto him: as also the disapproving, detesting, opposing, all false worship; and, according to each one’s place and calling, removing it, and all monuments of idolatry. Deut. 32:46-47; Matt. 28:20; Acts 2:42; 1 Tim. 6:13-14; Phil. 4:6; Eph. 5:20; Deut. 17:18-19; Acts 15:21; 2 Tim. 4:2; Jas. 1:21-22: Acts 10:33; Matt. 28:19; 1 Cor. 11:23-30; Matt. 18:15-17; Matt. 16:19; 1 Cor. 5:1-13; 1 Cor. 12:28; Eph. 4: 11-12;1 Tim. 5:17-18; 1 Cor. 9:7-15; Joel 2:12-13; 1 Cor. 7:5; Deut. 6:13; Isa. 19: 21; Ps. 76:11; Acts 17:16-17; Ps. 16:4; Deut. 7:5; Isa. 30:22.

Q. 109. What are the sins forbidden in the second commandment?

A. The sins forbidden in the second commandment are, all devising, coun- selling, commanding, using, and anywise approving, any religious worship not instituted by God himself; tolerating a false religion; the making any representation of God, of all, or of any of the three Persons, either inwardly in our mind, or outwardly in any kind of image or likeness of any creature whatsoever; all worshiping of it, or God in it or by it; the making of any rep- resentation of feigned deities, and all worship of them, or service belonging to them; all superstitious devices, corrupting the worship of God, adding to it, or taking from it, whether invented and taken up of ourselves, or received by tradition from others, though under the title of antiquity, custom, devotion, good intent, or any other pretence whatsoever; simony; sacrilege; all neglect, contempt, hindering, and opposing the worship and ordinances which God hath appointed. Num. 15:39; Deut. 13:6-8; Hos. 5:11; Mic. 6:16; 1 Kings 11:33; 1 Kings 12: 33; Deut. 12:30-32; Deut. 13:6-12; Zech. 13:2-3; Rev. 2:2, 14-15, 20; Rev. 17:12, 16-17; Deut. 4:15-19; Acts 17:29; Rom. 1:21-23, 25; Dan. 3:18; Gal. 4:8; Ex. 32: 5; Ex. 32:8; 1 Kings 18:26, 28; Isa. 65:11; Acts 17:22; Col. 2:21-23; Mal. 1:7-8, 14; Deut. 4:2; Ps. 106:39; Matt. 15:9; 1 Pet. 1:18; Jer. 44:17; Isa. 65:3-5; Gal. 1: 13-14; 1 Sam. 13:11-12; 1 Sam. 15:21; Acts 8:18; Rom. 2:22; Mal. 3:8; Ex. 4:24-26; Matt. 22:5; Mal. 1:7, 13; Matt. 23:13; Acts 13:44-45; 1 Thess. 2:15-16.

Q. 110. What are the reasons annexed to the second commandment, the more to enforce it?

A. The reasons annexed to the second commandment, the more to enforce it, contained in these words, For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments; are, besides God’s sovereignty over us, and propriety in us, his fervent zeal for his own worship, and his revengeful indignation against all false worship, as being a spiritual whoredom; accounting the breakers of this commandment such as hate him, and threatening to punish them into divers generations; and esteeming the observers of it such as love him and keep his commandments, and promising mercy to them unto many generations. Ex. 20:5-6; Ps. 45:11; Rev. 15:3-4; Ex. 34:13-14; 1 Cor. 10:20-22; Jer. 7:18-20; Ezek. 16:26-27; Deut. 32:16-20; Hos. 2:2-4; Deut. 5:29.

AMR

 

[Jose Fly]

Admiration of the one person that is the epitome of morality, compassion, and justice.
Kids need role models. You couldn't choose a better role model.

So that's all Jesus is? Just some guy with good morals?

 

[Jose Fly]

Of course but why debate a point that will have ZERO effect on the outcome of the topic. That's just a waste of time.

If you don't like debating a certain point, don't debate it.

There are pictures of all kinds of people hanging on the walls of public schools.

Any religious figures?

In my high school there was a large picture of JFK on the wall. What do you suppose that meant?

That he served as President of the US.

 

[Jose Fly]

Go ahead and let us know what you would post on the wall from either of those two people that can remotely approach the beauty, poetry, depth, and simplicity of Jesus' words.

So to you, it's just a coincidence that Jesus is the central religious figure of Christianity? The point of putting up a painting of him is about his poetry, not his religious message?

 

[john w]

I will slow it down for you....

"God" is a term used to describe many things. I can say, "under God," and not be endorsing your religion, or any religion.

The same is not true for "Jesus." Jesus is a Christian figure. It would most certainly be unconstitutional to put "in Jesus we trust" on money.

Get it yet?

"I will slow it down for you....

"God" is a term used to describe many things. I can say, "under God," and not be endorsing your religion, or any religion. "-Shaggy

What a mess....Catch that spin, bobbing and weaving, TOL audience?

"God" is a term used to describe many things.

And TOL members just walked off the proverbial turnip truck from Italy. Whom do you think your addressing on this board, chump? Your Uncle Joe, whoosamovin' kinda slow?

Yes, the framers of the constitution, the "founding fathers," were thinking, "let's employ the term 'God' to describe many things," and in "The Pledge of Allegience," one nation under God," does not really mean what most understand to be "God"-it can mean anything.

"not be endorsing your religion, or any religion."-Shaggy


Deceit-his argument:

"It's an unconstitutional government endorsement of a religion."-Jose F


Religion, by definition, encompasses the question of God, chump.


And the government is to prevent freedom "of"religion," not "from."

Of course,you'll redefine the words "from," "of," per "from"/"of", are "terms used to describe many things."

Right, chump?

Go on record, and argue that:

It's unconstitutional, for the government, to endorse the concept of God. And stuff your redefinition of "God."

Go ahead.

 

[shagster01]

"I will slow it down for you....

"God" is a term used to describe many things. I can say, "under God," and not be endorsing your religion, or any religion. "-Shaggy

What a mess....Catch that spin, bobbing and weaving, TOL audience?

"God" is a term used to describe many things.

And TOL members just walked off the proverbial turnip truck from Italy. Whom do you think your addressing on this board, chump? Your Uncle Joe, whoosamovin' kinda slow?

Yes, the framers of the constitution, the "founding fathers," were thinking, "let's employ the term 'God' to describe many things," and in "The Pledge of Allegience," one nation under God," does not really mean what most understand to be "God"-it can mean anything.

"not be endorsing your religion, or any religion."-Shaggy


Deceit-his argument:

"It's an unconstitutional government endorsement of a religion."-Jose F


Religion, by definition, encompasses the question of God, chump.


And the government is to prevent freedom "of"religion," not "from."

Of course,you'll redefine the words "from," "of," per "from"/"of", are "terms used to describe many things."

Right, chump?

Go on record, and argue that:

It's unconstitutional, for the government, to endorse the concept of God. And stuff your redefinition of "God."

Go ahead.

When the founding fathers said, "all men are created equal," did they include minorities and women in that too? If not, we better go back to their original intent, right?

Are most Christmas traditions originally Christian (trees, etc...)? If not we better go back to its original intention, right?

I could care less what the founding fathers meant. I care what it means NOW. But go ahead and try to stay in the 1700's if you want. Just be consistent about it.

 

[john w]

When the founding fathers said, "all men are created equal," did they include minorities and women in that too? If not, we better go back to their original intent, right?

Spin, deceit, changes the subject, creates a moving target, with his "Well, since the founding fathers said this, do you really think they meant this.....?" dodge, sleight of hand=no reasonable discussion can be had with you, wicked drone, as you assess that (fill in the blank) can mean anything we want, andwe are not to consider what the intent of the ff's was, via documents.........

I could care less what the founding fathers meant. I care what it means NOW. But go ahead and try to stay in the 1700's if you want. Just be consistent about it.

There you go, folks-out with the US Constitution, written way back yonder, and the ff's expounding of it............

I care what it means NOW.

Translated: What you say it means now.

You decide? Of course, the mut doessn't get, that we "argue," to decide what it means, employing what the ff's, Constitution, lays out.


You clown, wicked drone, engaging in sophistry, deception, and 6th grade "arguments."

Have a seat, Col. Klink. You are dismissed.

 

[shagster01]

Spin, deceit, changes the subject, creates a moving target, with his "Well, since the founding fathers said this, do you really think they meant this.....?" dodge, sleight of hand=no reasonable discussion can be had with you, wicked drone, as you assess that (fill in the blank) can mean anything we want, andwe are not to consider what the intent of the ff's was, via documents.........



There you go, folks-out with the US Constitution, written way back yonder, and the ff's expounding of it............

I care what it means NOW.

Translated: What you say it means now.

You decide? Of course, the mut doessn't get, that we "argue," to decide what it means, employing what the ff's, Constitution, lays out.


You clown, wicked drone, engaging in sophistry, deception, and 6th grade "arguments."

Have a seat, Col. Klink. You are dismissed.

Then you do think that "all men" really only means "all white men?" After all, that is what the fathers meant.

 

[john w]

Then you do think that "all men" really only means "all white men?" After all, that is what the fathers meant.

"God" is a term used to describe many things. I can say, "under God," and not be endorsing your religion, or any religion. "-Shaggy

Shaggy:You think that "God" really means a reference to diety, as most define it?

Sit.

No, chump, your issue is not with placing a picture of the Lord Jesus Christ, or Ishstar, or the Mahatma, or the Dali, or...................in schools,....................allegedly promoting the endorsement of a particular "religion"(used in a generic sense), in some feigned attempt to profess "defending the Constitution."No, your issue, as with all God hating, stubborn rebels, heathen, is authority, power, accountability-the rest is just a smoke screen......The plight of man..............rebellion........

Luke 19:14

"..........We will not have this man to reign over us."



1 Samuel 15 KJV

23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.........

Psalms 2 KJV

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

Tick, tick, tick............Heathen/rebel.............



Real men/women, respect, honor authority, accountability, power.



Start acting like a man, rebel.

 

[shagster01]

blah blah blah, changing subect, blah blah blah

Are you just going to avoid my question as to whether what the founding fathers meant by "all men" has changed or not, or are you gonna put your money where your mouth is and say that what the fathers really meant back then is what it does and should mean now too?

 

[Mocking You]

So to you, it's just a coincidence that Jesus is the central religious figure of Christianity? The point of putting up a painting of him is about his poetry, not his religious message?

I don't know the motivation behind the person that hung the portrait in Kansas.

I'm also done playing your game of 20 questions. Just come right out and say what you mean without attempting to cross examine it out of me by asking leading questions.

 

[john w]

Are you just going to avoid my question as to whether what the founding fathers meant by "all men" has changed or not, or are you gonna put your money where your mouth is and say that what the fathers really meant back then is what it does and should mean now too?

Vs.

"I could care less what the founding fathers meant. I care what it means NOW. But go ahead and try to stay in the 1700's if you want."-Shaggy

Log in...lose your mind.

And, a smoke screen.

The founding fathers never meant this, chump:



God" is a term used to describe many things. I can say, "under God," and not be endorsing your religion, or any religion. "-Shaggy


Define "money."Money" is a term used to describe many things.

Define "fathers." "Fathers" is a term used to describe many things.

Define "men." "Men" is a term used to describe many things.

Define "intent." "Intent" is a term used to describe many things.




See how that works, grade schooler? You taught us that-we learned that from you.


Fun! Run, Spot, to Shaggy!! Run, Spot....run!

 

[john w]

Are you just going to avoid my question as to whether what the founding fathers meant by "all men" has changed or not, or are you gonna put your money where your mouth is and say that what the fathers really meant back then is what it does and should mean now too?

The old "just going to avoid my question" stumper.

TOL laughs at that cliche.

 

[Angel4Truth]

It's an unconstitutional government endorsement of a religion.

How is a picture endorsement of a religion, do you believe the picture alone can cause one to become a christian?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Of course but why debate a point that will have ZERO effect on the outcome of the topic. That's just a waste of time.

There are pictures of all kinds of people hanging on the walls of public schools.

In my high school there was a large picture of JFK on the wall. What do you suppose that meant?

That you should trust in JFK for salvation, obviously.

 

[Jose Fly]

I don't know the motivation behind the person that hung the portrait in Kansas.

Really? No idea at all? Just like if a Mormon put up a painting of Joseph Smith, or a Scientologist put one up of L Ron Hubbard, you'd be like "Gee, I am completely in the dark about why they put that up"?

I'm also done playing your game of 20 questions. Just come right out and say what you mean without attempting to cross examine it out of me by asking leading questions.

You know exactly what the obvious conclusion here is, but for some reason you won't admit it.

 

[PureX]

How is a picture endorsement of a religion, do you believe the picture alone can cause one to become a christian?

No, but obviously the people who put it up thought it would have an impact, or they wouldn't have bothered. Which is exactly why it should not have been put up.

 

[Jose Fly]

How is a picture endorsement of a religion

If you truly need it explained to you why putting up a painting of Jesus Christ is an endorsement of Christianity, you're even worse off than I thought.

do you believe the picture alone can cause one to become a christian?

The legal issue isn't whether the painting is an effective conversion tool. :duh:

 

[Angel4Truth]

No, but obviously the people who put it up thought it would have an impact, or they wouldn't have bothered. Which is exactly why it should not have been put up.

You agree that it can't convert someone, yet claim its an endorsement of religion?

 

[Angel4Truth]

If you truly need it explained to you why putting up a painting of Jesus Christ is an endorsement of Christianity, you're even worse off than I thought.



The legal issue isn't whether the painting is an effective conversion tool. :duh:

There is no legal issue of having a picture, congress made a law for the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, which is why Christmas is a federally recognized holiday.

December 25 Christmas Day A worldwide holiday that celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ. Popular aspects of the holiday include decorations, emphasis on family togetherness, and gift giving. Designated a federal holiday by Congress and President Ulysses S. Grant in 1870 (16 Stat. 168), however this only applied to federal employees in Washington D.C. The holiday did not apply to all federal employees until 1968 [6] (Pub.L. 90–363, 82 Stat. 250-251).[7]

Express purpose, to celebrate the birth of Christ.