“No sex was used to produce this child!”

[TracerBullet]

You didn't listen? Ears too delicate?

well lets take a look at the facts. I know you hate facts but....

It was a student who brought up the topic of fisting and asked what was and was provided with an explanation of the practice of both the heterosexual and homosexual forms of it.

The educator answering the question was fired but successfully sued to be reinstated showing that the tapes MassResistance published had been altered.

 

[Quetzal]

You didn't listen? Ears too delicate?

I don't think that's it. I think the big problem is many people on this forum don't understand what a reputable source is. A blog post or an article with no citation isn't acceptable, no matter what side of the argument it comes from. A source is not an opinion, but a presentation of facts validated from a variety of perspectives. If others were more willing to at least try to bring these kinds of materials into the discussions, I feel it would be a lot more productive.

 

[GFR7]

@Tracer, Quetzal:

First, it is fitting and proper to be suspicious of an advocacy group. A political campaign is not unbiased. They can't be.

Second, why do I need to justify nature, biology, ancestry, genetics, tradition, religion against a new fangled movement???

Third, if you think there are no ethical problems/considerations/conflicts to third party reproduction, you are VERY misinformed.
Google it. It is a meta-ethical issue globally. And will continue to be debated throughout the coming decades.

 

[TracerBullet]

@Tracer, Quetzal:

First, it is fitting and proper to be suspicious of an advocacy group. A political campaign is not unbiased. They can't be.

Second, why do I need to justify nature, biology, ancestry, genetics, tradition, religion against a new fangled movement???

Third, if you think there are no ethical problems/considerations/conflicts to third party reproduction, you are VERY misinformed.
Google it. It is a meta-ethical issue globally. And will continue to be debated throughout the coming decades.

so no reason other than your own prejudice

 

[GFR7]

so no reason other than your own prejudice

Huh? Caring about the rights of children is mere prejudice? :think:

 

[Quetzal]

@Tracer, Quetzal:

First, it is fitting and proper to be suspicious of an advocacy group. A political campaign is not unbiased. They can't be.

Second, why do I need to justify nature, biology, ancestry, genetics, tradition, religion against a new fangled movement???

Third, if you think there are no ethical problems/considerations/conflicts to third party reproduction, you are VERY misinformed.
Google it. It is a meta-ethical issue globally. And will continue to be debated throughout the coming decades.

You are either too lazy to defend your own argument properly or you can't do it at all. Either way is fine with me.

 

[GFR7]

You are either too lazy to defend your own argument properly or you can't do it at all. Either way is fine with me.

I don't have to defend it. I know the facts. You would never accept them because it goes against your agenda.

 

[Quetzal]

I don't have to defend it. I know the facts. You would never accept them because it goes against your agenda.

You don't know that. Despite popular belief, if someone presents me sound evidence to the opposite side of an argument, I will accept it. My beliefs are dynamic and change if I am presented with something to support it. By the same token, if your argument is crap and your sources are crap, I will not change my mind.

 

[GFR7]

You don't know that. Despite popular belief, if someone presents me sound evidence to the opposite side of an argument, I will accept it. My beliefs are dynamic and change if I am presented with something to support it. By the same token, if your argument is crap and your sources are crap, I will not change my mind.

OK, you say that, but I have my doubts--

if you have no respect or concern for the ethics violations which occur when poor women are exploited for their wombs and their eggs; for the health risks incurred;

for the adult children who resent that they grew up alienated from their biological parent and ancestry; if you're not willing to even reflect on them----

what can I say?

Here are some links:

Hastings Center: Ethics and 3rd party assisted reproduction

http://www.thehastingscenter.org/Publications/BriefingBook/Detail.aspx?id=2210

Study Guide on Legal , Ethical, Moral questions re 3rd party reproduction: http://cbc-network.org/pdfs/CBC_ThinkAgainTPR_Study_Guide.pdf.

Ethics of third party reproduction:

www.eolss.net/sample-chapters/c03/e6-183-12-00.pdf

Ethical Challenges of New Reproductive Technologies- S Callahan (PDF available online)

 

[TracerBullet]

Huh? Caring about the rights of children is mere prejudice? :think:

rejecting legitimate research because it doesn't prop up you petty prejudices isn't caring about children. It's actively harming them. Just like your advocating for discrimination harms not just children but everyone.

 

[GFR7]

rejecting legitimate research because it doesn't prop up you petty prejudices isn't caring about children. It's actively harming them. Just like your advocating for discrimination harms not just children but everyone.

The same exact could be said back to you.

 

[GFR7]

@Tracer, Q: Thoughts/comments? :think:
Plenty of sources including New England Journal of Medicine.............

The Center for Bioethics and Culture Network:
What's Wrong with 3rd Party Assisted Reproduction?

http://www.cbc-network.org/wp-conte...oduction-Center-for-Bioethics-and-Culture.pdf.

 

[quip]

Huh? Caring about the rights of children is mere prejudice? :think:

Smokescreen. Don't fool us nor yourself.

You're on a moral crusade...concern for the kids is being used as a convenient pretext.

 

[GFR7]

Smokescreen. Don't fool us nor yourself.

You're on a moral crusade...concern for the kids is being used as a convenient pretext.

No, you don't know me. I waver and have probably too much sympathy for the opposing side.

 

[quip]

No, you don't know me. I waver and have probably too much sympathy for the opposing side.

Your various threads' content and quantity indicate otherwise.

 

[GFR7]

Your various threads' content and quantity indicate otherwise.

You don't know what I'm thinking and feeling, and struggling with, inside.

 

[quip]

You don't know what I'm thinking and feeling, and struggling with, inside.

You're quite correct...I can only know what you express...and form my opinion accordingly.

 

[GFR7]

You're quite correct...I can only know what you express...and form my opinion accordingly.

Right, but you aren't seeing the whole picture.

 

[Quetzal]

OK, you say that, but I have my doubts--

if you have no respect or concern for the ethics violations which occur when poor women are exploited for their wombs and their eggs; for the health risks incurred;

for the adult children who resent that they grew up alienated from their biological parent and ancestry; if you're not willing to even reflect on them----

what can I say?

Here are some links:

Hastings Center: Ethics and 3rd party assisted reproduction

http://www.thehastingscenter.org/Publications/BriefingBook/Detail.aspx?id=2210

Study Guide on Legal , Ethical, Moral questions re 3rd party reproduction: http://cbc-network.org/pdfs/CBC_ThinkAgainTPR_Study_Guide.pdf.

Ethics of third party reproduction:

www.eolss.net/sample-chapters/c03/e6-183-12-00.pdf

Ethical Challenges of New Reproductive Technologies- S Callahan (PDF available online)

I enjoyed reading these, my only disappointment is it took you so long to share them. After reading through them and taking a bit of time to reflect, my opinion has shifted a bit.

I believe third party reproduction (related to the OP topic) should be a legal option for people. This allows individuals and couples the ability to pursue the idea of raising a child starting from a very young age. With that said, however, it needs to be heavily regulated. The process needs to be long and complicated, because this is not a simple decision or process. There are a lot of factors to consider when going through with something like this.

If a woman wishes to volunteer her body as a surrogate, I believe she should have the ability to do so. But, as I said, it needs to be a long process. There needs to be a sound understanding of the health risks involved, there are legal proceedings that need to be taken care of, finances need to be calculated, physicians need to be arranged, etc.

 

[GFR7]

I enjoyed reading these, my only disappointment is it took you so long to share them. After reading through them and taking a bit of time to reflect, my opinion has shifted a bit.

I believe third party reproduction (related to the OP topic) should be a legal option for people. This allows individuals and couples the ability to pursue the idea of raising a child starting from a very young age. With that said, however, it needs to be heavily regulated. The process needs to be long and complicated, because this is not a simple decision or process. There are a lot of factors to consider when going through with something like this.

If a woman wishes to volunteer her body as a surrogate, I believe she should have the ability to do so. But, as I said, it needs to be a long process. There needs to be a sound understanding of the health risks involved, there are legal proceedings that need to be taken care of, finances need to be calculated, physicians need to be arranged, etc.

It should also be illegal - as in fact is the case in some nations - for any financial exchange to be made. This way, with no financial contracts or incentives, you could be sure that these people actually wanted to help, and were not making a sacrifice due to poverty.