Your opinion on God’s Law.

[meshak]

The new covenant doesn't remove the Law, Meshak, only the curse of the Law. I think that is what Jacob is stating. When we view the Law now, it is through Yeshua. God's Law is eternal and our obedience to it is now out of liberty in Yeshua.

We don't observe sacrificial law and other rituals that in the torra (sp), sister.

or do you?

 

[IMJerusha]

We don't observe sacrificial law and other rituals that in the torra (sp), sister.

or do you?

Yeshua fulfilled the sacrificial law. He was/is/will always be the once for all offering for our sin and guilt, so there is no need to observe that part of the Law anymore and we couldn't anyway seeing as how the Temple is gone as is the Levitical priesthood. (Correct spelling is Torah, btw)

 

[jamie]

I believe that both Judaism and Christianity are Biblical.

Both are biblical, the difference between the two is jurisdiction. If you travel out of state do you go by the laws of your home state or do you go by the laws of the state or country that you are in? For example, in Canada you are expected to abide by Canadian law. The same is true wherever you go.

You need to make the transition from the Torah to the NT. You do not keep the Mosaic law. No one can.

 

[Jacob]

Both are biblical, the difference between the two is jurisdiction. If you travel out of state do you go by the laws of your home state or do you go by the laws of the state or country that you are in? For example, in Canada you are expected to abide by Canadian law. The same is true wherever you go.

You need to make the transition from the Torah to the NT. You do not keep the Mosaic law. No one can.

There is Israel and Judaism. There is Christianity. To be a Jew can be by old covenant or new covenant. Christianity is a religion or a sect of Judaism. Yeshua is God's Anointed (Messiah / Christ).

Wherever you are you need to abide by the laws for where you are. We should always abide by God's law.

I practice much of the old covenant, without a temple. But I am a new covenant believer.

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[Derf]

Can we say that we are not to take matters in our own hands? I believe we can.

As for God's commands, they are good. It is not a matter of if we think they are that then we would obey them. We can obey them because they are good, but God's commands are only good.

I'm not sure what you mean by your question re. taking matters into our own hands. What "matters" are you talking about?

But I agree that God's commands are only and always good. There certainly seems to be a cessation of the sacrificial laws, due to the fulfillment of them in Jesus Christ. If the others (like do not murder, keep yourself clean when you go around other people, avoid others when you are contagious, build a parapet around your roof if people will be up there) are meant to help us to love God and our neighbors, then it seems like it would be good to follow them, and not an onerous burden to do so, especially if we have that thought in mind--that I'm doing this to show love to my neighbor, rather than being mad that I have to do them.

Of course, there are some that we question how/whether to enforce in some way, in light of how Jesus dealt with them, like the woman caught in adultery--it shows that His mercy is available to us, even if we have sinned grievously, but we still should "go and sin no more."

 

[Derf]

Good post, but just to clarify, it is death and hades that are cast into the lake of fire. This means the people are dead, not alive.

Cremation - ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts. (Malachi 4:1-3 KJV)​

I tried to leave both options open in my post--if they are ashes, they certainly aren't going anywhere. If they are somehow still conscious, then they aren't going anywhere.

 

[jzeidler]

There is absolutely no point to the law for the believer. The law is only for the non-believer to point him to his need for Christ.


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[meshak]

Yeshua fulfilled the sacrificial law. He was/is/will always be the once for all offering for our sin and guilt, so there is no need to observe that part of the Law anymore and we couldn't anyway seeing as how the Temple is gone as is the Levitical priesthood. (Correct spelling is Torah, btw)

There is a big difference in Torah and Jesus' law.

Jesus' law is explained in the New Testament. Jesus law is His teachings and commands.

Torah contains tons of laws and very complicated. Jesus' teachings are not complicated, it is just hard to follow because we have to abandon our worldly way of living and mentality and change to Jesus' ways.

Are you saying we should observe most of the laws of Leviticus? do you observe most of them?

thank you for spelling.

 

[Jacob]

I'm not sure what you mean by your question re. taking matters into our own hands. What "matters" are you talking about?

But I agree that God's commands are only and always good. There certainly seems to be a cessation of the sacrificial laws, due to the fulfillment of them in Jesus Christ. If the others (like do not murder, keep yourself clean when you go around other people, avoid others when you are contagious, build a parapet around your roof if people will be up there) are meant to help us to love God and our neighbors, then it seems like it would be good to follow them, and not an onerous burden to do so, especially if we have that thought in mind--that I'm doing this to show love to my neighbor, rather than being mad that I have to do them.

Of course, there are some that we question how/whether to enforce in some way, in light of how Jesus dealt with them, like the woman caught in adultery--it shows that His mercy is available to us, even if we have sinned grievously, but we still should "go and sin no more."

Were you saying the avenge murder different from a position you hold to or do you believe you should avenge murder and that is where you come up with how you can justify it whether this was what was communicated (or not) there (in scripture) too? That is why I said you should not avenge murder (it is taking matters into your own hands).

 

[Epoisses]

I practice much of the old covenant, without a temple. But I am a new covenant believer.

Really!?! You don't see a problem with blending the old with the new? You don't put new wine in old bottles else the bottles will break.

 

[meshak]

Jacob, are you claiming we should observe everything written in the Leviticus?

Do you observe everything in the book of Leviticus?

 

[Derf]

Were you saying the avenge murder different from a position you hold to or do you believe you should avenge murder and that is where you come up with how you can justify it whether this was what was communicated (or not) there (in scripture) too? That is why I said you should not avenge murder (it is taking matters into your own hands).

The levitical law allowed for vengeance in the case of murder. I think it was called "avenger of blood". (Num 35:19) Are you saying you don't agree with the levitical law now? And coming from Noah's time, it is more ancient than Moses' laws.

 

[Aletheiophile]

I have been following your posts and I agree on half of what you claim, not the whole thing.

do you pay attention to what the churches are practicing as a whole? do you pay attention to Jesus' word of "we know them by their fruit?

You need to know that Jacob's heart is in the right place.

but I cannot communicate with him too well either.

I'm not sure what your question is.

And I acknowledge Jacob's heart, and that he means well. Still does not mean the doctrine is correct.

 

[Aletheiophile]

I don't understand if you are saying there is a problem. You and I are each to love God and love our neighbor. You are my neighbor. Shalom.

Yes, I am grieved that you have voluntarily subjected yourself to written ordinances when you no longer need to. I myself was in Hebrew Roots for 18 months, and it ate me spiritually inside and out. I grieve for anyone doing that to themselves. It is not a problem with you, but the lies that are out there enslaving God's people once again.

Shalom.

 

[Jacob]

Really!?! You don't see a problem with blending the old with the new? You don't put new wine in old bottles else the bottles will break.

Both the old covenant and the new covenant are Jewish. The new covenant was for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. God's covenants have not changed.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, are you claiming we should observe everything written in the Leviticus?

Do you observe everything in the book of Leviticus?

Leviticus is a part of the Torah. One of my reasons to study Torah is to obey God's commands.

 

[meshak]

Leviticus is a part of the Torah. One of my reasons to study Torah is to obey God's commands.

So do you observe all written in the book of Leviticus?

 

[Jacob]

The levitical law allowed for vengeance in the case of murder. I think it was called "avenger of blood". (Num 35:19) Are you saying you don't agree with the levitical law now? And coming from Noah's time, it is more ancient than Moses' laws.

God's word has that God said vengeance is mine I will repay. This is God speaking. It is not for you or I. If you think it is for you, you may need to report the crime and trust the outcome to the courts.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, I am grieved that you have voluntarily subjected yourself to written ordinances when you no longer need to. I myself was in Hebrew Roots for 18 months, and it ate me spiritually inside and out. I grieve for anyone doing that to themselves. It is not a problem with you, but the lies that are out there enslaving God's people once again.

Shalom.

Thank you for your concern. I choose to obey God. But Gentiles do not need to do what I am doing. You are right, it is voluntary. As for Hebrew Roots I don't know that I follow. I do attend a Messianic Congregation, but Passover, for example, is Jewish. Hebrew Roots may or may not be the same as the Messianic movement, but most importantly I desire to be Biblical. I am a new covenant believer, but Jewish and Christian both by choice.

 

[Jacob]

So do you observe all written in the book of Leviticus?

I desire to. I can explain more and I am still studying it.

Leviticus is not just for priests. There is no temple so no sacrifice. And, I am a new covenant believer so I am learning about the place of the Law in the life of the believer as a new covenant believer in Yeshua as Messiah.

Many know nothing of the old covenant, the covenant God made with the nation of Israel. The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Now Gentiles are included.