Why Your Faith in a Doctrine or a Religion Will NOT Save You

[glorydaz]

You have to choose to love.

You can certainly choose to pretend like you love, and can even convince others that you love....just like you can pretend like you obey, and even convince others that you obey.

It doesn't seem to be working out very well for you, though, GT, and I know why. It's because you HAVE TO do it. We don't love or give or obey because we HAVE TO DO SO. We do so because we cheerfully desire to do so, and that's because the Lord has created us in Christ Jesus....new creatures. We love because He first loved us, and shed His love abroad on our hearts. It comes pouring out as we wait and watch His wondrous work in us.

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.​

We don't have to choose to love....love is the Fruit of the Spirit that we observe. "Wow, where did that come from? I actually love that unlovable person." Thank you Jesus. It didn't come from me.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.​

 

[glorydaz]

Why not be constructive and try to educate me, or clue me into how you and others reach your interpretation, rather than simply being dismissive?

Well, I've watched you be dismissive of others. I assumed that's the thing to do. You seem to be ready to discount whatever is offered you, so I figured why bother.

 

[glorydaz]

Obeying Jesus makes one righteous.

It seems like you'd get tired of contradicting the Bible. :chew:

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.​

 

[heir]

Examine verse 7. It says, "the Gospel of Christ." That is singular. My Gospel of Salvation is just as it is written, the Gospel of Christ;

What is it (the gospel of Christ)?

unchanging since Christ's life.

Assuming you are speaking of while the Lord walked the earth that is impossible as He had not died yet. It could not have been the gospel of Christ. While He walked the earth for three years there was a gospel that He preached called the gospel of the kingdom. :think: And if that's not enough for you, Paul writes that our gospel was a mystery then for had the princes of this world known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV)!

So much evidence points to the fact that our gospel was a mystery! Is it still a mystery to you?

 

[glorydaz]

Paul is talking about the purification/ceremonial works of the law.


That does not mean we no longer have to obey; it means we no longer have to get circumcised and offer animals to sacrifice.

Again....that is not what the Bible tells us. When are you going to start reading the word instead of expounding upon it? You clearly have a problem with what is actually said.

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:​

 

[heir]

One Gospel: Galatians 1:6-9, 2 Corinthians 11:4, Ephesians 4:5.

NONE of these passages say or imply one gospel. And the use of Ephesians 4 is laughable as that would have been Paul's opportunity to put a "one gospel" if there was only "one"!

Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

Ephesians 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

[heir]

One Gospel: Galatians 1:6-9, 2 Corinthians 11:4, Ephesians 4:5.

All of these verses utilize vocabulary of a singular Gospel, such as "the Gospel." The only mention of multiple gospels, in plural form, is when describing false gospels.

Your "one gospel" is a made up term and idea as is your "false gospel". The gospels that were preached in the Bible are real gospels to whom they were preached and will be preached!

the gospel of the kingdom,
the gospel of God,
the gospel of the circumcision,
the gospel of the uncircumcision
the gospel of Christ,
the gospel of the grace of God
and
the everlasting gospel (preached by an angel in Revelation)

ALL VERY REAL gospels, but not all good news (gospel equals good news) "unto you", "unto you", "unto you". The key to the verses in Galatians is "unto you". The gospel of the kingdom is not good news "unto you". The gospel of the circumcision is not good news "unto you". The gospel of God is the WHO of Jesus Christ and is not good news "unto you" (salvation wise). The gospel of Christ is the good news that Christ died for "our" sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day (but was only made known to be to those to whom Paul was first sent /the "our" in the passage). The gospel of the grace of God is the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation (the gospel that Paul preached "unto you"); that when Christ died for sins, He died for ours/we were included/all men sending that all can be saved by trusting the Lord believing it (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV, Ephesians 3:1-9 KJV).

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Paul: Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles. I never said he was not. But that is the key: context. Apostle "to" the Gentiles. "Of" meaning "sent unto" or "coming from." This is easily found when consulting a dictionary.

It's the office of the apostle OF the Gentiles. A desk no one else held title.

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

He is the apostle we are commanded to follow (1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV).

The 12 were commanded to go not into the way of the Gentiles (Matthew 10:5-6 KJV). I wonder why you go to a place where they claim to follow Peter?

I have nothing against Paul. What I have issue with is people who falsely claim that the first dispensation of Grace was into Paul, which goes against the Scriptures.

Contrariwise!

1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

It doesn't say us. It says it was committed unto Paul!

And later:

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

People who only "believe" Paul, or rather, their version of what Paul is "saying." Many times, such individuals are doing some very impressive mental gymnastics to arrive at their doctrine, rather than just believing what is plainly written. Such an example is your version of Galatians, where you seem to just ignore the phrase "the gospel of Christ," a phrased denotation of a singular (one) gospel.

I believe all of the Bible recognizing that while all scripture is FOR us, it's not all to us or about us. I recognize that the Lord and the 12 were sent to Israel and that Paul was sent to us. We follow him and hold fast the form of sound words we have heard of him. Your "you're not believing what is written" doesn't work on a Bible believer. The gospel of Christ is the gospel that Paul preached "unto" the Galatians. That doesn't mean that it's the only gospel in the Bible (as demonstrated above). If one (Paul includes himself) was to preach any other gospel than the gospel of Christ "unto the Galatians Paul said let them be accursed.

As stated before, the Gospel of Salvation is the exact same one (singular) taught by Christ and His Apostles. Unchanging since Christ's life.

Wrong! Peter and the 11 did not even know that Christ would die (Matthew 16:21-22 KJV) let alone for anyone's sins! And as stated before, Paul's gospel was a mystery and he told us why (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). And the fact that it would reach us: a mystery not made known unto the sons of men/unsearchable/ hid in God (Ephesians 3:1-9 KJV)!

We must 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV!

 

[heir]

So I gave you the good news of Christ (the gospel of the grace of God); that Christ died for our sins and the He was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). That is the gospel of our salvation and unless you are a complete fruit loop you should be able to deduce that while Christ walked on earth preaching the gospel of the kingdom, He had yet to die. And as to the gospel of Christ being the gospel you believed, how could it be when you said the Lord and the 12 preached it while the Lord was on earth? When will you trust the Lord believing the all sufficient power of God to save you (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV)? Nothing else will!

 

[God's Truth]

Who does and why he doesn't (1 Corinthians 2:13-14 KJV)

That scripture is about people who only want to please their flesh are not able to accept the scriptures.

 

[God's Truth]

You couldn't persuade me to get back into the bondage of the religious denominational system you are entangled in led by deceitful workers if you tried (2 Corinthians 11:13-15 KJV).

It's easy to see there is no "one gospel" to be found. You made it up. And why did you not answer what is the gospel of your salvation? I'll wait.

There has only been one way from the beginning to the end, and that is that all must believe and obey God.

Go think about how Christ was in the desert. Go think about how they went against Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

6Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.”a 8We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9We should not test Christ,b as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.

11These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. 12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 13No temptationc has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be temptedd beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted,e he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

 

[God's Truth]

One gospel, apostles of the world... Why can't you believe the Bible where it declares Paul the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11:13 KJV)? He clearly is and was given the dispensation of the grace of God to usward (Ephesians 3:1-9 KJV). Are you ashamed of the testimony of Paul? You want to talk doctrine? Let's see it. You can start by showing what is the gospel of your salvation and how one is saved. I'll wait.

Paul taught the same gospel as John the baptizer and Jesus Christ taught.

Paul: Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also,I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

John the baptizer: Luke 3:8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.'


Jesus: and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

 

[God's Truth]

You can certainly choose to pretend like you love,

You can't pretend and fool God.

and can even convince others that you love

A couldn't care any less what others think of me. It is God that I live to please.

....just like you can pretend like you obey, and even convince others that you obey.

I show others the scriptures and show them that we all have to obey.

It doesn't seem to be working out very well for you, though, GT, and I know why. It's because you HAVE TO do it.

Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men

We don't love or give or obey because we HAVE TO DO SO.

We have to and I love doing so, it is what I am to do.

We do so because we cheerfully desire to do so, and that's because the Lord has created us in Christ Jesus....new creatures.

Jesus doesn't make anyone obey.

We love because He first loved us, and shed His love abroad on our hearts. It comes pouring out as we wait and watch His wondrous work in us.

We are warned for a reason to obey. Did you forget those scriptures? lol

We don't have to choose to love....love is the Fruit of the Spirit that we observe. "Wow, where did that come from? I actually love that unlovable person." Thank you Jesus. It didn't come from me.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.​

Christ LIVES in me by my obeying the words he spoke. I live through Christ by obeying the words he spoke.

1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them.

Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

2 Thessalonians 3:14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed.

 

[God's Truth]

A lot of people WANT to obey and do not.


Matthew 21
28"What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, 'Son, go and work today in the vineyard.'

29" 'I will not,' he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
30"Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, 'I will, sir,' but he did not go.
31"Which of the two did what his father wanted?"
"The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

 

[God's Truth]

It seems like you'd get tired of contradicting the Bible. :chew:

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​

That scripture says to confess. You preach faith alone.

Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Abraham believed AND obeyed God from the beginning.

Search further in Galatians on what Paul was pitting belief against...Paul pitted belief against circumcision of the flesh.

Do you want proof that Abraham BELIEVED AND OBEYED always?


Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

Genesis 26:5 because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions."


Paul was telling the Galatians that they did not have to get circumcised like Abraham. Paul was not telling them they did not have to obey and only believe.

Circumcision used to justify. Now faith does. It means we do not have to get circumcised, we have to have faith. That does not mean we do not have to obey anything. It means we have to have faith that Jesus' blood cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.

 

[God's Truth]

What is it (the gospel of Christ)?

Assuming you are speaking of while the Lord walked the earth that is impossible as He had not died yet. It could not have been the gospel of Christ. While He walked the earth for three years there was a gospel that He preached called the gospel of the kingdom. :think: And if that's not enough for you, Paul writes that our gospel was a mystery then for had the princes of this world known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV)!

So much evidence points to the fact that our gospel was a mystery! Is it still a mystery to you?

Jesus came first for those who already belonged to God by faith, and God cut off the Jews who did not.

Jesus preached to believe in him. That is exactly what is taught by all the apostles, even Paul.

The mystery was Jesus Christ, God coming in the flesh.

 

[God's Truth]

Again....that is not what the Bible tells us. When are you going to start reading the word instead of expounding upon it? You clearly have a problem with what is actually said.

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:​

Those scriptures are about the Gentiles not having to get circumcised before Jesus would save them.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Amen.

 

[steko]

Well, I've watched you be dismissive of others. I assumed that's the thing to do. You seem to be ready to discount whatever is offered you, so I figured why bother.

Exactly!

 

[jsanford108]

Your "one gospel" is a made up term and idea as is your "false gospel". The gospels that were preached in the Bible are real gospels to whom they were preached and will be preached!

the gospel of the kingdom,
the gospel of God,
the gospel of the circumcision,
the gospel of the uncircumcision
the gospel of Christ,
the gospel of the grace of God
and
the everlasting gospel (preached by an angel in Revelation)

ALL VERY REAL gospels, but not all good news (gospel equals good news) "unto you", "unto you", "unto you". The key to the verses in Galatians is "unto you". The gospel of the kingdom is not good news "unto you". The gospel of the circumcision is not good news "unto you". The gospel of God is the WHO of Jesus Christ and is not good news "unto you" (salvation wise). The gospel of Christ is the good news that Christ died for "our" sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day (but was only made known to be to those to whom Paul was first sent /the "our" in the passage). The gospel of the grace of God is the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation (the gospel that Paul preached "unto you"); that when Christ died for sins, He died for ours/we were included/all men sending that all can be saved by trusting the Lord believing it (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV, Ephesians 3:1-9 KJV).

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


It's the office of the apostle OF the Gentiles. A desk no one else held title.

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

He is the apostle we are commanded to follow (1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV).

The 12 were commanded to go not into the way of the Gentiles (Matthew 10:5-6 KJV). I wonder why you go to a place where they claim to follow Peter?

Contrariwise!

1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

It doesn't say us. It says it was committed unto Paul!

And later:

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

I believe all of the Bible recognizing that while all scripture is FOR us, it's not all to us or about us. I recognize that the Lord and the 12 were sent to Israel and that Paul was sent to us. We follow him and hold fast the form of sound words we have heard of him. Your "you're not believing what is written" doesn't work on a Bible believer. The gospel of Christ is the gospel that Paul preached "unto" the Galatians. That doesn't mean that it's the only gospel in the Bible (as demonstrated above). If one (Paul includes himself) was to preach any other gospel than the gospel of Christ "unto the Galatians Paul said let them be accursed.

Wrong! Peter and the 11 did not even know that Christ would die (Matthew 16:21-22 KJV) let alone for anyone's sins! And as stated before, Paul's gospel was a mystery and he told us why (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). And the fact that it would reach us: a mystery not made known unto the sons of men/unsearchable/ hid in God (Ephesians 3:1-9 KJV)!

We must 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV!

I think I found the issue.

First, when I say "Christ's life," I am including the Resurrection (Christ was alive, thus "life" is an applicable term). Second, there is only one Gospel. The Gospel of Christ includes: salvation, grace, etc. I believe the issue between us is that you view each part as separate, rather than whole. The reason I accurately view it as one Gospel is due to what is stated in Scripture. If you refer to my post where I demonstrated the vocabulary describing a singular, non-plural, gospel. Every time the gospel is mentioned, there are only singular adjectives and nouns. "The Gospel." The only time a plural is used is for "false gospels." If you say "I watched a movie," or "I watched the movie," you mean a singular movie. You don't intend for anyone to logically interpret that as "movies," or multiples. Thus, the vocabulary and context of the New Testament points to a singular gospel. If I am wrong, provide a verse that speaks of multiple gospels, not false gospels, that are not part of the Gospel of Christ. (There would be logical, reasonable, and grammatical proof, if you are correct)

As for the phrase "apostle of the Gentiles," I addressed that in terms of contextual vocabulary, as well.

From the various points you made, I infer that you are a Mid-Acts Dispensationalist (MAD). If I am incorrect, I apologize. However, I draw this conclusion based on the views you have expressed, along with the near idolization of Paul above all others.

For example, a common MAD belief is that the 11 Apostles did not have the same dispensation of grace as Paul. This is ludicrous given that the 11 literally walked with Christ. The 11 literally saw the Resurrected Christ. Christ literally breathed on them, endowing them with the Holy Spirit. I would say they had far more grace than Paul.

You view of the term "mystery" is also incomplete. A Scriptural "mystery" is something described yet unknown, but made known in Christ. So the mystery of the gospel is fulfilled and manifest in Christ, thus, no longer unknown.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[heir]

I think I found the issue.

Your unbelief is the issue.

 

[jamie]

Wrong! Peter and the 11 did not even know that Christ would die

Didn't Peter preach the resurrection before Paul.