Why would God need a hell?

[freelight]

Be humble enough to really consider all things, even your own assumptions.

Be humble enough to really consider all things, even your own assumptions.

Wish you could hear how you sound from a point of true humility.

Well,.....I think it was more of a calling out of truth, than him being prideful by any means that has aroused your response, since you may want to re-consider his observation on the subject of 'self-worth' or 'value'. The innate value of any sentient being exists by virtue of 'God', the absolute reality and creative source of all. This is why to know oneself (in reality) is to know 'God' (the essence and source of reality). This 'knowing' and 'knowledge' is One.

You're a sham and a phony. Repent.

Any religious schmuck or bigot can say this you know, and many do. I think you might want to re-evaluate your posture here, and see that you may have ample 'repenting' to do, which is 'changing your mind' to consider and explore alternative viewpoints, which may have more merit or value than you realize. I count it an act of humility to consider all one's opinions, beliefs or points of view as being subject to continual research and testing, keeping the mind open to 'learn', 'evolve', 'grow', 'progress'. Expanding consciousness is very important, because consciousness is all there IS.

 

[Timotheos]

physical death followed by eternal spiritual death

Followed by eternal torture???

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Wish you could hear how you sound from a point of true humility. You're a sham and a phony. Repent.

The only sham and phony is the one in your head which you have unconsciously identified with and are projecting onto the world around you. Satan is so clever that you don't even know he is using you to do his work for him. You suggest that your point is one of true humility yet you are judging me as a sham and phony. How ironic. "You blind Pharisee! First wash the inside of the cup and the dish, and then the outside will become clean, too." Mathew 23:26.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Why would God need a hell, when he has sworn by his Holiness? Notice Amos 4:2, " The Lord God has sworn by his Holiness!" Interesting thing for God to do, swear by his own self, nothing could be more sacred than this. Nothing more Holy. Notice then again Isaiah 45:23, " I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return to me void; that unto me every knee shall bow and every tongue shall swear to me."

That is a sacred holy promise from the Father; hey, NOTHING can stop this! All humans are pre destined to submit to God, there will be no choices in this. None! There will be no free will choosing, God will not be asking humans for their opinion. We will worship God, he has vowed it! He has spoken it and said it will not return to him not accomplished! No religious interpretation can interfere with this holy moment.

Every knee will bow and every tongue confess......it says nothing about eternal destiny....those who hate Him will bow the knee and confess....

 

[Totton Linnet]

The only sham and phony is the one in your head which you have unconsciously identified with and are projecting onto the world around you. Satan is so clever that you don't even know he is using you to do his work for him. You suggest that your point is one of true humility yet you are judging me as a sham and phony. How ironic. "You blind Pharisee! First wash the inside of the cup and the dish, and then the outside will become clean, too." Mathew 23:26.

In ourselves we have nothing

 

[Prizebeatz1]

In ourselves we have nothing

That is what we have been conditioned to believe. That nothing which we experience to be an empty void is the part of us which is infinite and eternal. It is equivalent to indestructible spaciousness and we think that is bad as we have yet to put down the forbidden fruit of judgement. This is an error of grave magnitude. The way to find out this truth for ourselves is to jump head-first into the nothingness. In time we will then realize that it is not nothing, but rather it is everything.

 

[Totton Linnet]

That is what we have been conditioned to believe. That nothing which we experience to be an empty void is the part of us which is infinite and eternal. It is equivalent to indestructible spaciousness and we think that is bad as we have yet to put down the forbidden fruit of judgement. This is an error of grave magnitude. The way to find out this truth for ourselves is to jump head-first into the nothingness. In time we will then realize that it is not nothing, but rather it is everything.

Paul said "in myself I know that know good thing dwelleth" you are not better than Paul. Apart from Christ we are nothing.

 

[Mickiel]

Every knee will bow and every tongue confess......it says nothing about eternal destiny....those who hate Him will bow the knee and confess....

No Christian, you can't steal the salvation out from this verse, but I understand that you must try; its part of your mission in this life. Yours is to remove salvation, limit it, mine is to reveal just how much more salvation there is in Christ and God.

So we have to do our thing.

I understand that. You have to reduce salvation, its in you to see and do that.

I have to increase it. Its in me to see and do that.

God swore an Holy Oath that every knee will bow and every mouth shall confess to him; that's conversion! Its total submission and total obedience! And its good news for all the people that Christianity is condemning.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Paul said "in myself I know that know good thing dwelleth" you are not better than Paul. Apart from Christ we are nothing.

That is true but taking Christ literally leads to misunderstanding. Christ points to the infinite eternal part of us and yes, without it we are nothing. Please be aware that we can never be apart from this aspect of ourselves and thus we can never be disconnected from our divinity.

 

[Mickiel]

Believers who attach themselves to the eternal hell doctrine, are experiencing a " Famine from God"; not a famine of bread or water, but of hearing the truth from God, Amos 8:11-12.

They can even be honestly seeking the truth, but still will not find it, vs.12.

Why God? Why is this?

Because in this time which we live in now, God has a quota to fill; he wanted there to be so many Atheist, a certain amount of religions, a certain amount of humans, a certain amount of deception, a certain amount of false prophets, a quota of people who were beginning to see the truth, and a lot of human suffering.

If you are alive now, this IS the time God wanted you to live in; whatever you believe or do not believe, it fits God's quota. You are where you are supposed to be, believing or not believing what you are supposed to.

This is called destiny. And its powerful.

 

[serpentdove]

"...Notice Amos 4:2, " The Lord God has sworn by his Holiness!" Interesting thing for God to do, swear by his own self, nothing could be more sacred..."

"...The Lord—the same Hebrew as “masters” (Am 4:1). Israel’s nobles say to their master or lord, Bring us drink: but “the Lord” of him and them “hath sworn,” &c.

by his holiness—which binds Him to punish the guilty (Ps 89:35).

he will take yon away—that is God by the instrumentality of the enemy.

with hooks—literally, “thorns” (compare 2 Ch 33:11). As fish are taken out of the water by hooks, so the Israelites are to be taken out of their cities by the enemy (Ez 29:4; compare Job 41:1, 2; Je 16:16; Hab 1:15). The image is the more appropriate, as anciently captives were led by their conquerors by a hook made to pass through the nose (2 Ki 19:28), as is to be seen in the Assyrian remains." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 1, p. 673). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"Notice then again Isaiah 45:23, " I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return to me void; that unto me every knee shall bow and every tongue shall swear to me."

"...The Lord’s appeal to the Gentiles (45:20–25)

Is 45:20–25. The Lord appealed to the Gentiles to turn from wooden idols and be saved from coming destruction. They were to note the prophecies God had given and to acknowledge His uniqueness as the only God (vv. 21–22; cf. vv. 5–6, 14, 18) and to turn to Him because eventually everyone will acknowledge His sovereignty (cf. v. 14; Mal. 1:1; Rom. 14:11; Phil. 2:10–11). Even so, some Gentiles will be saved, recognizing that only in Him is righteousness available. But many will continue to rage against Him (Isa. 45:24). However, Israel, God’s covenant people, will be justified (found righteous) in the LORD, and in that they will rejoice (exult)." Martin, J. A. (1985). Isaiah. In J. F. Walvoord & R. B. Zuck (Eds.), The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (Vol. 1, p. 1100). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.

 

[Aimiel]

Well,.....I think it was more of a calling out of truth, than him being prideful by any means that has aroused your response...

Your thinking is in error, regarding The Kingdom which you cannot see, due to not being born again. Without The Blood there is no life in you.

The innate value of any sentient being exists by virtue of 'God', the absolute reality and creative source of all.

This is why to know oneself (in reality) is to know 'God' (the essence and source of reality). This 'knowing' and 'knowledge' is One.

Self is NOT God. Obviously it's your God, but not The One True God.

Any religious schmuck or bigot can say this you know, and many do.

Stupid is as stupid does.

I think you might want to re-evaluate your posture here, and see that you may have ample 'repenting' to do, which is 'changing your mind' to consider and explore alternative viewpoints, which may have more merit or value than you realize. I count it an act of humility to consider all one's opinions, beliefs or points of view as being subject to continual research and testing, keeping the mind open to 'learn', 'evolve', 'grow', 'progress'. Expanding consciousness is very important, because consciousness is all there IS.

Godly repentance leads to lasting change. You haven't changed one iota since joining TOL. Christians change constantly, and are being conformed to His Image. You are exactly like your father, the devil.

 

[Aimiel]

The only sham and phony is the one in your head which you have unconsciously identified with and are projecting onto the world around you.

No, you definitely are a pretend Christian and a disgrace to Truth, which you have no part in.

 

[serpentdove]

"Believers who attach themselves to the eternal hell doctrine, are experiencing a "Famine from God"; not a famine of bread or water, but of hearing the truth from God, Amos 8:11-12."

:yawn: You're projecting again (Eph 4:14). :noway:

See:

Hell

"Am 8:11 — “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord GOD, “that I will send a famine on the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.”
From the time of the prophet Malachi to the time of John the Baptist—a period of almost 500 years—this drought withered the land. Let us daily feast on God’s Word, and so avoid a similar drought in our souls." Stanley, C. F. (2005). The Charles F. Stanley life principles Bible: New King James Version (Am 8:11). Nashville, TN: Nelson Bibles.

"...God has a quota to fill; he wanted there to be so many atheist, a certain amount of religions, a certain amount of humans, a certain amount of deception, a certain amount of false prophets, a quota of people who were beginning to see the truth, and a lot of human suffering."

2 Pe 3:9, Eze 33:11

 

[Mickiel]

When Christianity gets a new convert, they immediately start teaching them hell and many of their doctrines. Its like a brain wash. Notice Jesus in Matt. 23:15, he really disliked the " Leaven of the Pharisees", which means false teachings like their eternal hell doctrine. He tells them, " You make one convert, and when he is made, you make him twice more a child of hell than you are."

Even during Jesus time, believers were seriously addicted to hell doctrines; Jesus called them the children of hell. And they been teaching hell ever since. Building a family of hell.

 

[serpentdove]

Notice Jesus in Matt. 23:15, he really disliked the " Leaven of the Pharisees", which means false teachings like their eternal hell doctrine...

:dizzy:

See:

Pharisees

 

[serpentdove]

Peace.

Is 57:21 :Shimei:

 

[Mickiel]

While we are in Matthews 23rd chapter, lets look again at Jesus speaking in verse 13; " But woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men!" Oh, a railing accusation from Christ. These believers in God, because they most certainly believed, and did so in a very strict manner, were teaching doctrines that literally kept other people from being able to be saved. They were so serious about their belief, that they felt only believers who " Were like them", could be saved! They had to " Do" what they did. Think like they thought. Interpret the scriptures like they did.

And these Pharisees had doctrines that closed the door of salvation to certain people; Christianity today is no different, with their eternal hell doctrine, they are " Modern day Pharisees."

 

[Aimiel]

When Christianity gets a new convert, they immediately start teaching them hell and many of their doctrines. Its like a brain wash. Notice Jesus in Matt. 23:15, he really disliked the " Leaven of the Pharisees", which means false teachings like their eternal hell doctrine. He tells them, " You make one convert, and when he is made, you make him twice more a child of hell than you are."

Even during Jesus time, believers were seriously addicted to hell doctrines; Jesus called them the children of hell. And they been teaching hell ever since. Building a family of hell.

The 'child of hell' referred to is anyone who doesn't have a grasp of revelation Truth. Those who deny the Bible-based Truth of hell and / or universalists fall into the category of 'twice the Child of Hell'.

 

[Aimiel]

While we are in Matthews 23rd chapter, lets look again at Jesus speaking in verse 13; " But woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men!" Oh, a railing accusation from Christ. These believers in God, because they most certainly believed, and did so in a very strict manner, were teaching doctrines that literally kept other people from being able to be saved. They were so serious about their belief, that they felt only believers who " Were like them", could be saved! They had to " Do" what they did. Think like they thought. Interpret the scriptures like they did.

And these Pharisees had doctrines that closed the door of salvation to certain people; Christianity today is no different, with their eternal hell doctrine, they are " Modern day Pharisees."

Knowing that un-believers will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire being tormented in flames for ever and ever prevents no one from being saved, so your premise is false. We merely adhere to Scriptures more than your fables of annihilation or universalism.