way 2 go
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Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Why would God need a hell?
- Thread starter Mickiel
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Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Mickiel
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Its making you scrape and scratch and search , isn't it? Your trying to find something, so you can defend that hellish doctrine. But Dan. 12:2 just will not do, it does not teach eternal hell punishing, it does not explain or describe the Christian hell, and it does not condemn anyone.
But listen, I encourage you, keep searching; this is just one feeble attempt, surely you have more?
Or do you? Come now, lets have the scriptures.
way 2 go
Well-known member
this is a half truth from the father of lies
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said to the woman, You shall not surely die,
Gen 3:5 for God knows that in the day you eat of it, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as God, knowing good and evil.
Prizebeatz1
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I used to take the scriptures for what they say too but that caused me to miss the point. The point is we are one with God. Notice again, how this theme of perceived separation has such a foothold on humanity. Heaven resides in us just as God resides in heaven. When Jesus said "...just as you are in me and I am in you..." (John 17:21) it is representative of how the soul is one with God and God is one with the soul. Like Father, like Son. God, the soul, heaven and salvation are inseparable. I know this through my own experience. That is the only way one can be fully convinced. Do not be a doubting Thomas. Jesus and the scriptures symbolize something much much bigger than our preconceived notions. "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him” (1 Corinthians 2:9).
God, heaven, salvation, wholeness, fulfillment, contentment, enlightenment, nirvana, paradise, etc. can all be experienced through the soul. Just the tiniest fraction of a nibble and instantly we feel the power of "The Lord is my shepherd; there is nothing I shall want" (Psalm 23:1). The ego (along with its desire to hold on to beliefs to fix its sense of lack) is instantly frozen and shattered in one motion. It feels so good that we don't even care. We are tickled with lighting bolts of love to the heart to the point where we can't stop laughing. It is exhilarating and rambunctious joy and laughter. A glorious jubilation and exaltation to the glory of God. The universe rejoices when we turn to the soul. Our eyes become instantaneously awakened to the realization that we are infinite spaciousness. This happens in negative one second, before we can even blink. This is our natural state of unbreakable unity with all that IS, my friends. I tell you it is so real. It must be felt at all costs. It is more than enough to make you instantly throw it all away. It takes just the smallest fragment, the tiniest nibble, the slightest whiff of the smell, a miniature dip of the finger. What is 00000000000.1 percent of infinity?
This can be felt by penetrating through the many layers of the personality. The treasure inside us is very very deep. It is our divinity and it resides in the soul. When we touch the fringe of his robe, we are healed of unconscious sicknesses that we didn't even know were there including the insane belief that we could somehow be separate from God. This state of unbreakable union with God is not meant to be experienced for a short while here and there. There is absolutely not a waver of a doubt that we are made to be with this always. It is our destiny and there's no way around it. Let's not miss the point any longer.
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Mickiel
New member
Right now I have used 312 scriptures in thread, so I am half way to my first goal. I want to show there is more salvation in the bible than most have been shown; to show them biblically that there is no need for the Christian hell. To show them that salvation is a serious free gift for all, and that gift reflects the true nature of God!
Mickiel
New member
You ever read the last verse in the bible? Rev. 22:21, "The GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you ALL!" Even the last message recorded in scripture is all inclusive, it prays that Jesus great grace be with all of humanity.
And just guess how many of us need that grace?
We ALL do. And we need to pray for ALL of humanity.
And just guess how many of us need that grace?
We ALL do. And we need to pray for ALL of humanity.
Dear Mickiel,
I'm not quite sure what you are looking for, but I have an idea. See Rev. 1:18KJV, "...behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." See Rev. 14:10, 11KJV "and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image..." That's the lake of fire, I believe. See also Rev. 19:20KJV and Rev. 20:10KJV. Also Rev. 20:13, 14KJV. And Matt. 5:22KJV, Jesus says, "hell fire." Now, if Jesus said there is a hell, then you'd best believe Him. But God does want as few as possible to go there. See Matt. 11:23KJV. I could go on a while here, Mickiel, but I hope you realize that even Jesus said that the beast, false prophet, Satan, and those who followed after the beast, shall be cast into the lake of fire, 'our Sun.' Hell is the 'bottomless pit,' Mickiel. It is in the center of the Earth, which has a center and a top {everyone thinks they are on top because of gravity}, so there is no bottom of the Earth, just a top and a center, so it is bottomless. That's what the words signify, that center of the Earth that is extremely hot with magma and lava that often come to the surface through volcanic eruptions. If you want me to continue more about whether there is a hell or not, contact me on my Creation thread. Thanks!!
God Watch Over You Always,
Michael
:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
Mickiel
New member
Greetings Michael,
My belief is that hell term as recorded in some bibles simply means the grave , not a literal place of fire and torment. It has to be understood correctly. The first time Jesus even mentions hell, in Matt. 5:29-30, he was not being literal. He said if your eye or hand offends you then cut it off; he certainly was not being literal. There is no literal fire burning hell, and just as you could go on and on trying to convince me of how you see this, so could I; but I would rather say as you have, just read my thread; enough is there to show my belief. See I know that God does not need a place like the Christian hell; I know he never planned on it and never created it for any humans.
I am not A Christian Michael, I am not bound by Christian understanding, I have no need of it, I am content with my own. My biblical language is totally differing to that of a Christian, I see salvation where they see hell. I not only don't need the Christian insight, I don't want it; been there, done that; and now I am free, I cannot go back to Egypt. But I know how the Christian mind is, it cannot be penertrated , it is set in its way. Its going to see hell no matter what, it is a total indoctrination into limited atonement , it is a slave to believing that not all men are destined to be free and live with God. My eyes have seen the glory of the salvation of all; seen it, right there in the bible! It is the greatest thing I have ever seen, and it has improved my sight of God.
So I will be fine; since long ago when I first met you, I thought you were a good man, still do. So I wish you well Michael, we just walk different paths. Were called to do different things.
Peace then, on your journey.
so being punished when you don't exist passes the "straight face test"
there are 2 kinds of death
the destruction of the body
and
spiritual separation from God
Having your soul destroyed eternally would pretty easily qualify as an eternal punishment. No?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Yes,...a death that is final and eternal in its 'effect' could be termed 'eternal punishment', but that particular soul is no longer functionally alive or conscious, having been dis-integrated (this meaning that personality is no longer functional as a living soul unit, therefore I use the term 'dis-integration' here). Unfortunately there are those who wish to impose an ECT upon souls, since this idea of 'retribution' fits their concept of justice, which is nothing but 'overkill', and violates the principles of real justice and mercy, disavowing the love and wisdom of God.
While I've been exploring the concept of 'soul-death' (conditional immortality) and 'universalism' (all souls being eventually/ultimately being saved) as alternatives to the horrific hellfire doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT), there are wonderful insights into the afterlife within Spiritualist and Spiritist schools (also aspects of Theosophy) which may afford more reasonable explanations and descriptions of the soul's journey, by way of the law of progress, multiple life-experiences (re-embodiments) and the universal law of karma, whereby all souls only reap what they sow in direct proportion of their actions and attending consequences, only suffering by their own transgressions of law (as is right and just), and being saved from such consequences by repentance, reformation and reparation of their sins, which is the only right and just way, as love and goodness guides all souls along towards purification and the path towards perfection (hence suffering is a 'means' whereby souls learn, grow, overcome and advance in their life-purpose).
So, as I've touched on, there is much more than just 'ECT, conditional immortality and universalism' as possible eschatologies for the soul, as there exists many volumes of information about the spirit-world outside a biblical world view within traditional-orthodox Christianity. The vast data collected on NDE's (near death experiences) also prove a more spiritualist-universalist perspective on the eternal progression of souls, so there is ample room in the infinity of God's love and wisdom to guide and perfect the soul and all the time necessary provided to fulfill one's true will and life-purpose.
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Dear Mickiel,
Thanks for your post! Yes, I do see you are on a different tangent there. Same with freelight. You can go your own way {Fleetwood Mac} LOL!! Good luck, Mickiel.
May God Bless Your Heart!!
Michael
:angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9: :guitar:
I agree with what Jesus said there. Those who depart into eternal fire will be consumed by that fire. That's what fire does. Matthew 25:41 doesn't say that they are tortured alive forever in the fire. It doesn't matter what I call it, those who go there are destroyed there. Matthew 10:28 says "rather fear the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." That's pretty clear, those sent there will be destroyed. You have to want to believe in eternal torture to find it in Matthew 25:41 or anyplace else in the Bible.
God does not want you do suffer
God does not want to force your decision
God does want you to choose Him
it is the only way He will have you
God does not want to force your decision
God does want you to choose Him
it is the only way He will have you
He lives for his: appetite (Prov. 23:2), sinful pleasures (Heb. 11:25, 26) or worldly ambitions (Matt. 16:24–26) but he sure doesn't live for Jesus (1 Pet. 4:2).
Jn 8:37
linger: Jud 11, Re 22:11 :burnlib:
Mickiel
New member
You think that if someone is not a Christian, then they have to be in a cult. This is because you have so much pride in Christianity; you worship it without knowing that is what you are doing. I am not in a cult. I am not in a religion. I am not a member of any group. I walk alone, I don't need to be in a group.
So now, what insult will you label me with now?
Mickiel
New member
Let me add to this , so that there will be a clear understanding as to why I am not in a religion. Not only am I against Christianity, I am against all the religions on earth; I don't want to be a part of any of them. I think a lot of them have some things right , but its the things they have wrong that I separate myself from. I think we all have many things wrong about God, and I would rather be wrong by myself. I go after Christianity a lot because I think its " The Head", so I don't bother with the body that much. But I think Christianity has some things right.
When you mix right and wrong, its a nuclear mix; unstable in all its ways.
I do not believe God has called out an end time church yet, but when he does, he will draw them from every nation and people on earth. And they will be like no other church on the planet ; they will be the people of God, and the whole earth will know it! They will be like a light on a hill, easy to recognize and figure out that they truly are led by the Holy Spirit, because they will not have pastors or leaders or teachers; the Holy Spirit will do all that; there is no church like that now on earth; none that I have seen.
I wish I live to see them come on the scene, they will not be mixed with lies. They will be pure in their knowledge. And they will just be the first wave of God calling all of humanity. We are in for some interesting times.
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