ECT Why Were Only Some of the Jewish Believers Baptized Into the Body of Christ?

[Danoh]

Yea, and you think that you know more about Mid-Acts dispensationalism than J.C. O'Hair!!! Only in your dreams!

According to your views the fathers of systemized Mid Acts were hybrids!

That can only make sense to someone who is delusional!

It is obvious in their writings that they had held to a hybrid (a mix of views) here and there that they let go of in their later writings, as they had reached greater clarity.

That they had still held to a mix of some things here and there on other things is equally obvious.

For they were still in the process of recovering Mid-Acts Truth, which meant an even further break away from the hybrid or mix of Reformed and Acts 2 Theology that was and has remained Acts 2 Dispensationalism.

And only O'Hair had remained ever open to having an error pointed out to him.

It is you who have turned such things into stone.

What was left to sort out was sorted out long ago.

But not by those three men.

Time on this Earth, together with those still deeply entrenched tradions of men robbed them of that.

It would be left to their predecessors to go from there.

You are not one of those.

You are still stuck in the Stone Age aspect of what had then been their hybrid or mix of views that only later, even more time in the Word would one day allow those standing on shoulders of the labor of those three to even BEGIN to see.

You are the very epitome of the saying that those who do not learn from their history are forever bound to repeating its mistakes.

You're like you're own E.C.Moore.

:chuckle:

When confronted over 40 years ago about his erroneous mix of Welch and Paul into his Acts 9 / Acts 28 Hybrid (back then he and his were known as "Acts 28ers in Acts 9 Clothing"), he reacted just like you do.

You're in VERY poor company.

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It is obvious in their writings that they had held to a hybrid (a mix of views) here and there that they let go of in their later writings, as they had reached greater clarity.

Neither Sir Robert Anderson nor J.C. O'Hair nor Cornelius Stam ever changed their teaching or changed their mind about the fact that the doctrine contained in the Hebrew epistles is for those in the Body of Christ.

All I see from you is someone who is trying to appear informed but all you do is show your ignorance!

Besides that, you continue to come on this thread and time after time you fail to answer the point of this thread.

You think only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ and others were not.

But so far you have not defended your position by the Scriptures.

You say it is true but when challenged to prove it is true you offer absolutely nothing. You talk big but you have not yet said why some of them were not baptized into the Body, much less give any Scriptures to back it up.

A well without water!

 

[musterion]

"Hey, unsaved Jews. You don't have to believe Paul's gospel. God's ok with you believing something else."

Shugart, YOU ARE AN ENEMY OF THE CROSS.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Shugart, YOU ARE AN ENEMY OF THE CROSS.

You prove once again that when you cannot answer the message you attack the messenger.

Tell us when John's words in the following passage were cancelled:

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31-32).​

When?

And when are you ever going to quote the Scriptures which prove your assertion that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ and not all of them?

Did you just make up that idea out of thin air or do you really have Scriptual support for that theory?

Let us see the Scriptures, if you have any.

 

[Danoh]

You prove once again that when you cannot answer the message you attack the messenger.

Tell us when John's words in the following passage were cancelled:

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31-32).​

When?

And when are you ever going to quote the Scriptures which prove your assertion that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ and not all of them?

Did you just make up that idea out of thin air or do you really have Scriptual support for that theory?

Let us see the Scriptures, if you have any.

You remain amusing, Neo-Mormon-MAD Jerry.

:chuckle:

(good call AMR).

You, Jerry, have been one to "attack the messenger" as much as anyone else.

You were doing just that when I first registered on TOL.

As to the balance of your fool post, your view of passages like those in John 20 only exposes once more your incompetence at actual, consistent, Mid-Acts Dispensationalism.

You continue to prove you hold a view on one thing or another that consistently disagrees with the narrative of Scripture.

Case in point, a comparison of Acts 17 with 1st and 2nd Thessalonians not only makes it obvious that Paul would not merely prove to a Jew that Jesus had been the Christ, but that he would follow that with teaching them Mystery/Body truth.

That is not made evident by Luke in Acts 17.

Rather, by Paul - later, when he writes 1st and 2nd Thessalonians to them.

He writes TO REMIND THEM of Israel's having fallen; and of an interruption in Daniel's 70th Week, and of the finished work of the Cross having delivered them from the wrath to come via the Body's Blessed Hope; and so on...

In short, Paul would not have stopped at merely proving to them that Jesus had been their Messiah; he would go on to teach them of the interruption in their Prophesied Promises (Mystery Truth); and about the merits of the finished work of the Cross this side of the Mystery, our Blessed Hope, and so on.

But there is no reasoning with your kind.

Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

In short, Paul would not have stopped at merely proving to them that Jesus had been their Messiah; he would go on to teach them of the interruption in their Prophesied Promises (Mystery Truth); and about the merits of the finished work of the Cross this side of the Mystery, our Blessed Hope, and so on.

Paul was given a ministry to both the Jews and the Gentiles. Why would he go to the Jews and preach the gospel of the uncirumcision to them?

There are many narratives found in the book of Acts where Paul preached to the Jews and he never preached the gospel of grace to them. What he told them was clear--Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And the Jews who heard and believed that gospel were born of God.

I am still waiting for your Scriptual evidence that supports you assertion that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the body of Christ but not all.

How long are you going to wait?

 

[Danoh]

Paul was given a ministry to both the Jews and the Gentiles. Why would he go to the Jews and preach the gospel of the uncirumcision to them?

There are many narratives found in the book of Acts where Paul preached to the Jews and he never preached the gospel of grace to them. What he told them was clear--Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And the Jews who heard and believed that gospel were born of God.

I am still waiting for your Scriptual evidence that supports you assertion that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the body of Christ but not all.

How long are you going to wait?

Sheesh!

:rotfl:

The gospel of the Uncircumcision is an everyman gospel.

Paul himself was saved by it.

Duh - uh.

Exactly why you continue to fail to see that I have been answering your silly request for proof as to "which Jews were / were not baptized into the Body" question all along.

You hybrid, you.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The gospel of the Uncircumcision is an everyman gospel.

Paul himself was saved by it.

Duh - uh.

Exactly why you continue to fail to see that I have been answering your silly request for proof as to "which Jews were / were not baptized into the Body" question all along.

Do you really think that explains why some were baptized into the Body and others were not?

 

[Danoh]

Do you really think that explains why some were baptized into the Body and others were not?

Yep.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Israel was now UNCIRCUMCISION.

They had failed to keep the Law?

How?

Their rejection of Christ as their Prophesied Christ.

John 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

The exact thing related by Paul..

Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Israel was now UNCIRCUMCISION or HEATHEN - including their chief sinner against the LORD and His Christ...

1 Timothy 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Or as he later related to those Jews and Gentiles he had won to Christ at Galatia...

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Galatians 2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person: ) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles: ) 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Exactly why Paul would go to both lost Jew and lost Gentiles, while James, Cephas, and John now focused their ministry on "they of the Circumcision which believed" - those of the Circumcision who had believed the gospel of the Circumcision back when it had been up and running, prior to Israe's fall at Acts 7.

Thus, James', Cephas', and John's writings (Hebrews to Revelation) to them, not to the Body.

Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

And all this is merely an opening primer for a much larger study on all of it.

But until you understand even that much, there is no point in attempting to address your fool question - you are not being consistently Mid-Acts.

No matter how many books "about" from every school of thought under the sun you might quote in your ever hoped for support of your glaring inconsistencies, Jerry.

You and others can assert all you want that I never address each your errors.

Fact is, each time I have, it has gone right past each of you.

Fact is, the things I assert and that many, many Mid-Acts Pastor- Teachers also assert, are simply beyond each your respective hybrid approach's resulting ability to allow you to see the obvious - that Acts 9 Dispensationalism is Acts 9 Dispensationalism - not some hybrid of various errors mixed into another "MAD."

Acts 17: 11, 12.

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[meshak]

Danoh,

I think it is much better read if you make your posts short.

just saying.

 

[DAN P]

Do you really think that explains why some were baptized into the Body and others were not?

Hi Jerry and 2 Cor 3:13-15 explains why Jews are not being saved as in Acts 2:41 as , for 2000 years have been set aside , Luke 13:6-9 and Isa 6 , ACTS 13_46 , 18:6 AND Acts 28:28 !!

The VAIL , even UNTIL Paul's ministry , have been BLINDED !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Danoh,

I think it is much better read if you make your posts short.

just saying.

True that.

Less can often be...more.

:thumb:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[DAN P]

He was saved before he heard the gospel of grace because at one time Apollos was a believer "knowing only the baptism of John":

"And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John" (Acts 18:24-25).​

But later, after Aquila and Priscilla had "expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly" (v.26) we see Paul saying that Apollos watered what he had planted and they are both "one":

"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one" (1 Cor.3:5-8).​

Apollos was watering what Paul had planted because both were members of the Body of Christ and both were ministering to those in the Body of Christ. It is inconceivable that Apollos was not a member of the Body of Christ since Paul says that "he that planteth and he that watereth are one."

Hi Jerry and Apollos was saved when Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos the MYSTERY in Acts 18:26 !!

dan p