Hi Jerry and I DEFINITELY spelled it out in post #14 and you ask me again ?
You are you are teaching CODSWALLOP and avoiding the questions and are blending GRACE and WORKS !!
dan p
ECT Why Were Only Some of the Jewish Believers Baptized Into the Body of Christ?
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Hi Jerry and I DEFINITELY spelled it out in post #14 and you ask me again ?
You are you are teaching CODSWALLOP and avoiding the questions and are blending GRACE and WORKS !!
dan p
glorydaz
Well-known member
Ah, so I was arguing over and over about something I have admitted I don't know? I kept asking you why things are different in Peter from what Paul preached, and you just kept repeating the same thing over and over again. You haven't answered one single question I have asked you. You're back to demanding and falsely accusing. Not a good sign. :nono:
Perhaps you should actually try reading what other people post, instead of assuming they have said what they haven't.
You're back on my Annoying List.
Not only that, but you misrepresent what I have said about 1 John 1. I showed you, in detail, that John is talking about those who CLAIM to be walking in the Light, and those who actually are walking in the Light, and you are just too pig headed to see it.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So you haven't been arguing on any of these threads that the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles is not for those in the Body?
Give me a break!
You don't remember saying that the salvation mentioned in 1 Peter is not a "done deal" as is the salvation of those in the Body?
If you don't know why you think that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ then I wonder what the rest of your beliefs are based on. That is scary!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
He was saved before he heard the gospel of grace because at one time Apollos was a believer "knowing only the baptism of John":
"And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John" (Acts 18:24-25).
But later, after Aquila and Priscilla had "expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly" (v.26) we see Paul saying that Apollos watered what he had planted and they are both "one":
"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one" (1 Cor.3:5-8).
Apollos was watering what Paul had planted because both were members of the Body of Christ and both were ministering to those in the Body of Christ. It is inconceivable that Apollos was not a member of the Body of Christ since Paul says that "he that planteth and he that watereth are one."
glorydaz
Well-known member
I said it didn't sound like it was a done deal to me. That it sounded like something that was yet to be realized. It still does. Maybe you were absent the day they taught punctuation when you were in school....like question marks for example. If I'm not mistaken I was asking you questions. :think:
As far as I know, I'm entitled to state what I see, and what I don't see, and your attempts to bully and intimidate are signs that you don't know, yourself, what is correct. Else why do you have so many threads asking the same thing. Lots of questions, but no answers coming from you that I have seen.
Are you unaware of the differences between Paul's letters and the others? It's like there are two completely different Gospels or something. Odd.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
What is your point about Paul? Nothing you have said about Paul even hints that there is really proof from the Scriptures that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ and others were not.
If it is true that only some of them were baptized into the Body then you ought to be able to tell us why that is true and give evidence from the Scriptures to prove that it is true!
So far all you have come up with is ZILCH!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The point is that you were trying to prove that those who received the Hebrew epistles were not members of the Body of Christ. And so far you have given absolutely no evidence from the Scriptures which even hints that some of the first century Jewish believers were not members of the Body of Christ.
Since that is your belief then I assume that you were convinced of that by the Scriptures. So share your Scriptual evidence with me.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Yes indeed some were not baptised. These verses paint a pretty haphazard start to the early church. I think this type of confusion and many others have existed in the church right up until today. Moments of greater clarity were noticeably when Constantine tried to get the church to organise itself and when Martin Luther/the printing press tried to bring better understand of the scriptures to the masses. The the KJB. The internet and now finally we are waiting for Elijah to prepare us with correct theology for Jesus' return. To name but a few.
Acts 19
1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5O hearing this, they were baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.
Wrong
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So the nation of Israel repented and the Lord Jesus has been sent back already? Peter said the following to the nation of Israel:
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:19-20).
Did the nation of Israel repent?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The subject under discussion is the idea of some on this forum that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ. For instance, these same people assert that neither Peter, John nor James were baptized by one Spirit into the Body of Christ.
When asked to give evidence from the Scriptures that supports this idea of theirs they have none.
The nations of Israel are represented today by the birthright nations.
The Jews were not of the birthright.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You didn't answer my question. Did the nation of Israel repent in the first century?
And you don't know Bible history.
The "nation" of Israel was split after Solomon died.
God's people had two different kings.
Jesus said he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, he spoke to the so-called Jews in parables.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So who was Peter addressing at Acts 2:22?
You are too far gone in your error to address on this issue through Scripture rightly divided, Jerry.
Case in point, your erroneous assertion that 1 John 1: 9, 10 concern the Body.
I challenge any so called Dispensationalist who asserts this error of yours on those two passages, I challenge ANY so called Dispy to go back to John's own drawing board or PROPHESIED Basis - the following chapters of Scripture.
See if after having actually read them in the following order, they still assert your error on 1 John 1: 9, 10, Jerry.
All of Leviticus 26;
2 Chronicles 7;
Malachi 3 and 4;
Matthew 3;
Matthew 23;
John 1;
John 5;
John 8;
Acts 3;
And THEN 1st John 1 and 1st John 2.
I challenge you Jerry to just read all those chapters in that order - no matter how familiar you think you are with them.
If you still hold your error on 1st John 1: 9, 10, well then, there is no point in attempting to reason with you about Who The Body is comprised of.
Those chapters TEACH the DOCTRINE of ISRAEL's REQUIRED Confession of Sin tied BOTH to THEIR Restoration and to the Restoration of THEIR Land Promise.
NONE of which is the Body's Promise.
Acts 17: 11, 12.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I still am waiting for any Scriptures from you which demonstrate that only some of the first century believing Jews were baptized into the Body of Christ. I have asked you numerous of times to supply those verses but so far all I hear are the crickets.
You wouldn't know rightly dividing if it hit you right between the eyes. You are nothing but a big talker and you prove it because you make your wild claims and then are unable to give any evidence from the Bible to back up your silly assertions.
I will now give solid and indisputable evidence that those who wrote and received the Hebrew epistles were members of the Body of Christ. Paul Sadler, previously the President of the Berean Bible Society, says the following about the events which will happen when the Lord Jesus returns at the rapture:
"According to Paul's gospel the Rapture is 'imminent,' that is, it could take place at any moment. There are no signs, times, or seasons that will precede this glorious event" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, "The Present Obsession With the Anti-Christ," The Berean Searchlight, June, 1999, 7).
The teaching that the rapture is "imminent" is supported by the following passage:
"For our citizenship is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body...The Lord is at hand (eggus)" (Phil.3:20-21;4:5).
The Greek word eggus means "of times imminent and soon to come to pass" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
In the Hebrew epistles we see the same appearance of the Lord Jesus described as being near:
"You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near" (James 5:8).
The Greek word translated "is near" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).
In an article found on the "Pre-Trib Research Center" web site Dr. Renald E. Showers writes:
"In light of James' statements C. Leslie Mitton wrote, 'James clearly believed, as others of his time did, that the coming of Christ was imminent.' On the basis of James' statements we can conclude that Christ's coming was imminent in New Testament times and continues to be so today, and that this fact should make a difference in the way Christians live" [emphasis added] (Showers, The Imminent Coming of Christ).
If you actually knew how to rightly divide the Bible you would understand that only those belonging to the Body of Christ will be raptured at the imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus. And since the Hebrew believers were waiting for that imminent appearance they were members of the Body of Christ.
But I am sure that you will continue to deny the truth about the imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus and you will continue to be unable to give any evidence from the Scriptures which demonstrates that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body.
You prove over and over that you are a big talker and nothing more!
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Silly people.
But you should say the disciples, not first century Jewish believers. Acts 2:4
All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
Acts 2:14
Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.
Hi and I know that you are wrong in the above statement and will quote a verse that there are NO Jews in the B O C !!
So open your eyes to Gal 3:28 !!
Do you understand what verse 28 starts out , " There cannot be Jews " DO YOU UNDERSTAND what it is saying ??
I see you have a problem with the so-called N T and many BLEND WORKS and GRACE together !!
There CANNOT BE / ENI means that CAN NOT BE Jews in the B O C !!
Because there cannot be Jews NOR Gentiles in the B O C and ENI is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and the Present here represents the DISPENSATION of the Grace of God , ONLYYYYYYYYYYYYY , Jerry !!
The Greek PRESENT TENSE says it means CONTINUOUS ACTION during ONLY the Grace of God , how simple it is !!
dan p