ECT Why shouldn't I convert from Evangelical Protestant to Catholic?

[Christian Liberty]

A Catholic and a Calvinist arguing. What a waste. Two kinds of lost souls denying the Truth.

Says the Arian heretic.

Merely a Straw Man Fallacy on your part. The Catholic Church was interpreting, teaching, and providing the answer to Rom. 4:5 for a millennium-and-a-half before a single Protestant ever managed to stumble onto the scene. The Christian Church didn't begin with Billy Graham, after all.

He who does no work, yet believes in Him is saved.

You do not believe this. You believe that the one who does no work is condemned.

Yes, by doing no "work of the law," that is, the Mosaic Law (Hebrew Law Code). That's what the term "work" means in the context of Paul's theology. Thus, merely being a good Jew will not save you.

This does not follow. Romans 6:23 says that the wages of sin is death. Not just the Jewish Law, any sin. You deserve death because of your sin. I deserve death because of my sin. God's standard is perfection.

Are you perfect? If not, nothing you do is acceptable to God (Isaiah 64:6.)

Thankfully, Jesus Christ replaces the filthy robes of any who trust in him alone to save them with clean robes. See Zechariah 3:1-5. This vividly describes the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. Catholicism rejects this because it is not Christian.

Baptismal regeneration was believed and taught by Christ, the apostles, and the early Church, as was the role of good works (though not of the works of the law) in salvation.

By contrast, Galatians 5:1-2 says that anyone who adds any works of the law to the gospel is dead in his sins. ANY works. Not just Old Testament works. ANY works. Including baptism.

Jesus and the Apostles did not teach the doctrine you are teaching. If any of the so-called "church fathers" did, that is because they were not saved.

And how about you turn away from your errors of Calvinism before it's too late?

Catholicism teaches that double predestination is heresy. Yet Romans 9:19-22 very explicitly teaches it. What you call "Calvinism" is Biblical.

 

[Cruciform]

He who does no work, yet believes in Him is saved. You do not believe this.

Of course I do. He who does not rely on performing the dictates of the Mosaic Law may be saved.

This does not follow.

Answered here and here.

Thankfully, Jesus Christ replaces the filthy robes of any who trust in him alone to save them with clean robes. See Zechariah 3:1-5. This vividly describes the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. Catholicism rejects this because it is not Christian.

Nonsense. Catholics believe in the imputation of Christ's righteousness to the repentant sinner. We also believe in the impartation of Christ's righteousness to the believer---see this and this.

By contrast, Galatians 5:1-2 says that anyone who adds any works of the law to the gospel is dead in his sins. ANY works. Not just Old Testament works. ANY works. Including baptism.

Then you'll need to inform Jesus Christ, who personally instituted the sacrament of Christian Baptism, and the apostles and early Church, who proceeded to administer it as the sign of the New Covenant (see this and this).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[RichRock]

Catholicism teaches that double predestination is heresy. Yet Romans 9:19-22 very explicitly teaches it. What you call "Calvinism" is Biblical.

I don't see how it does explain it (double predestination), unless it is ripped out of context, mis-interpreted and mis-applied. I know those verses are defending weapons in the Calvinist armoury. Although saying that, I would genuinely be interested to see how you think Calvinism is the only way of salvation amongst protestantism itself and why Calvinists reject other protestant denominations.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I don't see how it does explain it (double predestination), unless it is ripped out of context, mis-interpreted and mis-applied. I know those verses are defending weapons in the Calvinist armoury. Although saying that, I would genuinely be interested to see how you think Calvinism is the only way of salvation amongst protestantism itself and why Calvinists reject other protestant denominations.

I don't think I said that...

First of all, "Calvinism" isn't even a denomination. Its a 5-point doctrinal system that deals specifically with soteriology.

I currently attend a conservative baptist church, though I'm more reformed baptist in my actual beliefs.

Second of all, I never said that only Calvinists were saved. I just said that it was Biblical.

 

[God's Truth]

Says the Arian heretic.

I am not an Arian. You say anything. You do not care if what you say is true or not.

He who does no work, yet believes in Him is saved.

Paul is speaking about the work of CIRCUMCISION. Paul is not telling people to have faith and do nothing. That is insane; just like Peter says about those who misunderstand Paul. See 2 Peter 3:16, and 2 Peter 3:17.

You do not believe this. You believe that the one who does no work is condemned.

Jesus is the WAY. We have to do what Jesus says to get to the Father.

 

[lifeisgood]

Don't you follow the way of Lutheran?

What he teaches is not scripture.

No, I follow Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

 

[RichRock]

I don't think I said that...

First of all, "Calvinism" isn't even a denomination. Its a 5-point doctrinal system that deals specifically with soteriology.

I currently attend a conservative baptist church, though I'm more reformed baptist in my actual beliefs.

Second of all, I never said that only Calvinists were saved. I just said that it was Biblical.

I know Calvinism isn't a denomination, I never said it was. However, some denominations are more Calvinist than others...don't those see themselves as correct and the others to be in error? I was asking because I was evangelical protestant, the church leant towards Baptist but taught Calvinism was a doctrinal error and to be heresy....

 

[Christian Liberty]

Of course I do. He who does not rely on performing the dictates of the Mosaic Law may be saved.


Answered here and here.


Nonsense. Catholics believe in the imputation of Christ's righteousness to the repentant sinner. We also believe in the impartation of Christ's righteousness to the believer---see this and this.


Then you'll need to inform Jesus Christ, who personally instituted the sacrament of Christian Baptism, and the apostles and early Church, who proceeded to administer it as the sign of the New Covenant (see this and this).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

I was talking about people who require baptism for salvation, not people who baptize. Of course baptism is Biblical.

I know Calvinism isn't a denomination, I never said it was. However, some denominations are more Calvinist than others...don't those see themselves as correct and the others to be in error? I was asking because I was evangelical protestant, the church leant towards Baptist but taught Calvinism was a doctrinal error and to be heresy....

Of course we see ourselves as correct! But that doesn't mean we think we are the only ones who are saved! Those Calvinists who think only Calvinists are saved are a minority of Calvinists.

Baptists range from the extremely Calvinistic to the extremely Arminian. We've had everything from hyper-calvinists to open theists.

 

[pinetree]

Its all over... the Jewish leaders were afraid of his challenge to their religious power.. so they conspired with the Romans to have Jesus crucified.

That is not the reason Jesus was crucified. He said such things as "if you hve seen Me you have seen the Father," which to the Jews meant he was saying (which he WAS) that Jesus is God

Pretty much the same thing your Popes have done for centuries... have the kings and queens of Europe do its executions for them.

this is bogus. Popes have always tried to tell rulers to deal w/ others in a Christian way. We see how much good it does these days, don't we?




lain:

 

[pinetree]

Of
Nonsense. Catholics believe in the imputation of Christ's righteousness to the repentant sinner. We also believe in the impartation of Christ's righteousness to the believerT]

Do you think this is why Jesus said that "Whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you do unto Me"?

or do u think that even fake Christians were included in this--meaning that even uncommitted fake Christians deserve our Christian... uh.. solicitation?

I have always wondered who exactly are "the least of [His] brethren" and who is not



lain:

 

[Cruciform]

I was talking about people who require baptism for salvation, not people who baptize. Of course baptism is Biblical.

As the sources I cited in Post #1342 show, Jesus instituted the sacrament of Baptism, and the apostles administered the sacrament, [1] as the normative means of regeneration, and [2] as necessary for salvation.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Cruciform]

I have always wondered who exactly are "the least of [His] brethren" and who is not.

In the context of Matthew's Gospel, this seems to refer to the poor, afflicted, and disadvantaged (Mt. 4:23-24; 8:1-17; 11:4-6).

(I highly recommend this as the best Catholic study New Testament available. Most helpful!)

 

[God's Truth]

No, I follow Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

It is obvious you do not follow Jesus. It is obvious you follow the teachings of men.

 

[Cruciform]

It is obvious you do not follow Jesus. It is obvious you follow the teachings of men.

...declares the committed non-Christian who has pridefully rejected the Christian God. :darwinsm:

 

[God's Truth]

...declares the committed non-Christian who has pridefully rejected the Christian God. :darwinsm:

I do what God says.

You do not.

You call your brothers 'father'.

You named a brother 'Holy Father', a name reserved for God.

You call that brother 'Holy Father', and he is a man who goes against God. He walks around in flowing robes, he takes the seat of most importance, he allows others to kiss his feet.

 

[Cruciform]

I do what God says. You do not.

Post #1354.

You call your brothers 'father'.

Addressed here, here, here, and here.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[lifeisgood]

It is obvious you do not follow Jesus. It is obvious you follow the teachings of men.

Another gt scripture?

 

[God's Truth]

Another gt scripture?

You are doing Satan's will.

I am trying to help the Catholics see their false doctrines. I am trying to help them obey God, as God tells us to do. You have discriminated me here and become a judge with evil thoughts.

 

[Cruciform]

You are doing Satan's will. I am trying to help the Catholics see their false doctrines. I am trying to help them obey God, as God tells us to do. You have discriminated me here and become a judge with evil thoughts.

Post #1354.

 

[RichRock]

... But that doesn't mean we think we are the only ones who are saved! Those Calvinists who think only Calvinists are saved are a minority of Calvinists.

So, as I mentioned before and as you state above, some Calvinists, although as you point out, a minority, believe non-Calvinists are not saved.

If you cannot agree amongst yourselves, why should others take you seriously?