ECT Why shouldn't I convert from Evangelical Protestant to Catholic?

RichRock

BANNED
Banned
I have attended Catholic service before. Prepared to be bored out of your mind with it's mystical pagan practices and ramblings. Most Catholic churches are not like Protestant churches where they praise God in a joyful spirit and provide insightful readings with the Word of God and where you can receive prayer and brotherly fellowship.

Praise God in a joyful spirit? You mean chasing the emotional high and equating feeling good with feeling close to God?

Insightful readings with the word of God? Which insightful reading?...there are so many diffetent ways to interpret as each man deems fit. Hence the number of denominations.

Pagan practices and ramblings? Show proof of this instead of talking 'non-sense'.
 

resurrected

BANNED
Banned
... I've left this thread ...

:freak:

youre-doing-it-wrong.jpg


sorry to see Heterodoxical banned

hope he comes back

less homo-obsessed :thumb:

Welcome to our world brother, welcome to our world.

do you have cookies?
 

Jason0047

Member
You strung together some haphazard half truths and came up with a ridiculous theory about the Catholic Church being the whore of Babylon. Researching the facts would show you otherwise. The counter argument has already been provided. Reread the thread.

What counter argument? You mean a link? An opinion?
For surely when a criminal is convicted of a crime, they try to gather as many evidences as possible to try and link him to the crime to make it unmistakable that he is the criminal responsible for his crime. A pattern of evidence and not just one piece of evidence that could be circumstantial. I laid out a pattern of evidence. In other words, it would be like seeing elephant tracks thru a forest, hearing an elephant in the distance, and seeing tusk markings in the trees that would provide a pattern of evidence that makes it unmistakable that an elephant had crossed by on this particular path.

Worshipping statues? YOUR accusations built on air have already been refuted earlier in the thread. Stop repeating yourself, it's virtual amnesia.

Funny, I didn't see any Bible verses proving that the apostles bowed down to statues of Mary and the saints. It would be great if you could provide a verse that shows us this.
 

RichRock

BANNED
Banned
Still not sure why it's a struggle for you. I've been to any number of churches and never felt particularly uncomfortable in any of them, disagreement on a point of dogma notwithstanding.

They're Christ's houses aren't they? Where that's the case what's to be uncomfortable with? Is it just a matter of struggling against ingrained traditions of your former means of approach?


Have you read Brother Lawrence?


I hope it enlivens you. :e4e:

When I was I child I witnessed Protestants and Catholics killing eachother in Northern Ireland. Which religion you were determined where you lived and went to school...and where you worked to an extent.
Violence was frequent and death was common. My father often answered the front door with a gun in his hand...just out of sight. Protestants and Catholics hated eachother.
I was a protestant, went to protestant church, protestant school, lived in protestant area and had protestant friends. I was deeply ingrained with hatred towards any Catholic. The pope was often called the anti-Christ from the pulpit.

For me, yes, even stepping into a Catholic Church was a massive milestone.

Yes, I have read Brother Lawrence :) God amongst the pots and pans...good stuff :)
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
Yes, they do. The RCC has the "death cookie."
It might be death for you since you lie about Christ's Church. But it is the bread of life, the Body of Christ - "This is my body" - our daily bread from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

You blaspheme against Christ and the Eucharist he established for his Church.
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
You do not tend to listen very well. I never said those things in relation to Mystery Babylon were individually sufficient evidence in and of themselves alone. You have to look at all of them (or all of the evidence). For in Bible prophecy, you look at a pattern of evidences. You do not look at just one. Furthermore, do you worship statues? I never got an answer from you on this one before. Would you like to? Well, that is what is available for you if you do join the RCC..........
Oh shut up already for Pete's sake. Your hate and lies are just a waste of everyone's time here.
 

RichRock

BANNED
Banned
What counter argument? You mean a link? An opinion?
For surely when a criminal is convicted of a crime, they try to gather as many evidences as possible to try and link him to the crime to make it unmistakable that he is the criminal responsible for his crime. A pattern of evidence and not just one piece of evidence that could be circumstantial. I laid out a pattern of evidence. In other words, it would be like seeing elephant tracks thru a forest, hearing an elephant in the distance, and seeing tusk markings in the trees that would provide a pattern of evidence that makes it unmistakable that an elephant had crossed by on this particular path.

In your case, therefore, the defence would pick apart your accusations point by point until the whole case fell apart...which is what many have done on this forum. The judge would kick your case out before it even got to court anyway....seeing as it is built mostly on fabricated lies and slander instead of fact.
 

Jason0047

Member
It might be death for you since you lie about Christ's Church. But it is the bread of life, the Body of Christ - "This is my body" - our daily bread from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

You blaspheme against Christ and the Eucharist he established for his Church. Your beliefs are from the pits of hell

First--there is no indication that the words were meant to be literal

Nowhere in scripture do we find this teaching. We see scriptures refer to the elements as the body and blood, but we also see Jesus clearly stating that the words He was speaking were spiritual words when talking about eating his flesh and drinking his blood: "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." (John 6:63). He did not say they were literal words; that is, He did not say that they were His actual body and blood.

But, a Catholic might object and say that Jesus clearly said, "This is My blood . . . " and "This is my body . . . " This is true, but Jesus frequently spoke in spiritual terms: "I am the bread of life," (John 6:48); "I am the door," (John 10:7,9); "I am the resurrection and the life," (John 11:25); "I am the true vine," (John 15:1), etc. In the context of John 6, Jesus is telling His disciples that they must eat His body and blood (John 6:53). He clearly says He was speaking in spiritual terms, " . . . the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." (John 6:63).

Second--the elements of the communion supper were still referred to as bread and wine

After The institution of the communion supper, both the elements were still referred to as bread and wine.

"And while they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body." 27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. 29 "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom." (Matt. 26:26-29).

After Jesus said, "This is my blood," (Matt. 26:28), he said, "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Fathers kingdom," (Matt. 26:29). Why would Jesus speak figuratively of His blood as "the fruit of the vine" if it was his literal blood? He called it wine.

"For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it, and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me." 25 In the same way He took the cup also, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me." 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. 27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup." (1 Cor. 11:23-28).

If the elements were changed and were really the body and blood, then why does Paul refer to the element of bread as bread and not the literal body of Christ?

Third--there is no indication the disciples thought the elements changed

There is no indication in the biblical accounts of the Last Supper that the disciples thought that the bread and wine changed into the actual body and blood of Christ. Are we to believe that the disciples who were sitting right there with Jesus actually thought that what Jesus was holding in his hands was his literal body and blood? There is no indication that they thought this.

Fourth--there is no indication the disciples worshipped the elements

We see no indication at all that the disciples worshipped the elements. The adoration of the Eucharist is practiced during the Mass. Catholicism says, "Moreover, the Catholic Church has held firm to this belief in the presence of Christ's Body and Blood in the Eucharist not only in her teaching but in her life as well, since she has at all times paid this great Sacrament the worship known as "latria," which may be given to God alone."1 Where is the worship given the sacrament by the disciples anywhere in the New Testament? It is not there.

Fifth--the supper was instituted before Jesus' crucifixion

The Mass is supposed to be a reenactment of the sacrifice of Christ. Therefore, according to Roman Catholic theology, the bread and wine become the broken body and shed blood of Christ and are, somehow, the crucified body and blood of Christ.. But how can this be since Jesus instituted the Supper before He was crucified? Are we to conclude that at the Last Supper, when they were all at the table, that when Jesus broke the bread, it actually became His sacrificial body--even though the sacrifice had not yet happened? Likewise are we to conclude that when Jesus gave the wine, that it became His actual sacrificial blood--even though the sacrifice had not yet happened? That would make no sense at all.

Sixth--the Roman Catholic view is a violation of Levitical law

The Roman Catholic interpretation of the Eucharist requires the participant to eat human flesh and drink human blood. Remember, Roman Catholicism teaches that the bread and the wine become the actual body and blood of Christ. Essentially, this amounts to cannibalism. What does the Scripture say concerning this?

"For as for the life of all flesh, its blood is identified with its life. Therefore I said to the sons of Israel, You are not to eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood; whoever eats it shall be cut off." (Lev. 17:14).
Notice that the scripture says that you are not to eat the blood of any flesh. It would certainly appear that the Roman Catholic view is in contradiction to the Old Testament scripture since it advocates the eating of the blood of Christ. To the RCC it is not just symbolic; it is the actual eating and drinking of the body of Christ.

Some Roman Catholics respond by saying that Jesus had instituted the new and everlasting covenant in which the sacrificed body and blood of Christ was reality. Therefore, because it was a new covenant, it was also the sacrificed body and blood. But this cannot work because the new covenant could not yet be instituted until after the death of Christ as the Scriptures state.

"And for this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, in order that since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it." (Heb. 9:15-16).

Therefore we can conclude that the Levitical law was still in effect because the new covenant had not yet been established. So, the Roman Catholic position would have Jesus himself violating Old Testament law by having the disciples drink the blood--if it were literal blood.

Source Used:
http://carm.org/transubstantiation
(Note: All views expressed by this author does not represent all my views concerning the Bible. Especially their wrongful stand on Calvinism.).
 

Jason0047

Member
In your case, therefore, the defence would pick apart your accusations point by point until the whole case fell apart...which is what many have done on this forum. The judge would kick your case out before it even got to court anyway....seeing as it is built mostly on fabricated lies and slander instead of fact.

You see what you want to see and you are not actually look at the pattern of evidences that keep pointing to the fact that an elephant came thru the forest. Again, Mystery Babylon evidences aside, please show me a verse in the New Testament where the apostles worshiped or bowed down to statues of Mary and the saints.
 

Jason0047

Member
Again, where are the Bible verses that show the apostles bowing down to statues of Mary and the saints? How about verses about them praying to them? Any verses on New Testament priests forgiving people their sins?
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Jason, why the divisiveness? Why are you picking on this man? Most of the things you believe came from the Catholic church.

Quit nitpicking.

Paul asked, "Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand."
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Jason, why the divisiveness? Why are you picking on this man? Most of the things you believe came from the Catholic church.

Quit nitpicking.

Paul asked, "Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand."

you actually sound like a christian
 

Padre Kinsey

New member
First of all, I would like to apologize if I say some things that have already been said; I admit to not reading the entire history of this post.
I think researching the history of your faith is a fantastic devotional and developmental practice and it is not that uncommon for evangelicals who engage in this endeavor to come out on the other side feeling more connected with the Catholic Church. I had a similar journey from evangelical pastor to Anglican priest and I am curious about your understanding and experience with the Anglican tradition. I fell in love with the Catholic Church (history, liturgy, tradition, orthodoxy) and found Catholic sources of devotional and formation to be far superior to the evangelical alternatives. I chose the route of the Anglican Church because I felt that it retained most of what I loved about the Catholic Church but also some of the needed reformations. For me Anglicanism retains the global church feel, allows for commonality and connection to both the Catholic and Orthodox traditions, and remains within the necessary line of apostolic succession. Just a thought.
May the Lord bless you on your journey and guide you in all things.
-Padre Kinsey
 

RichRock

BANNED
Banned
First of all, I would like to apologize if I say some things that have already been said; I admit to not reading the entire history of this post.
I think researching the history of your faith is a fantastic devotional and developmental practice and it is not that uncommon for evangelicals who engage in this endeavor to come out on the other side feeling more connected with the Catholic Church. I had a similar journey from evangelical pastor to Anglican priest and I am curious about your understanding and experience with the Anglican tradition. I fell in love with the Catholic Church (history, liturgy, tradition, orthodoxy) and found Catholic sources of devotional and formation to be far superior to the evangelical alternatives. I chose the route of the Anglican Church because I felt that it retained most of what I loved about the Catholic Church but also some of the needed reformations. For me Anglicanism retains the global church feel, allows for commonality and connection to both the Catholic and Orthodox traditions, and remains within the necessary line of apostolic succession. Just a thought.
May the Lord bless you on your journey and guide you in all things.
-Padre Kinsey

Evangelical pastor to Anglican priest? Spectacular. Thank you very much for your post.
I did look at the Anglican Church at one point and attended a few services. I liked the liturgy and fellowship, but the tell tale for me was the Anglican vicars who joined the Catholic Church and took their congregations with them. Looking into this in more detail I discovered the problems within the church with the role of women as priests/bishops and same sex marriage, amongst others.
Whilst I love my Anglican brothers and sisters, I felt the organisation is too liberal and sits uncomfortably with me against what I read in scripture.
I am intetested in your conversion experience, how have you dealt with the issues I mention?
God bless you
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
our pastor started out catholic
became an anglican priest
got married
had two kids
and
is now a catholic priest different from all the rest
you can tell
I like him
 
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