Why is Bob proud about being homophobic?

[Jefferson]

karstkid:

To answer your question: No, I am not willing to fellowship with homosexuals in order to witness to them. I'll witness to them at work and in public debates and situations like that but I am not going out to lunch with one of them. They are too vile to associate with.

 

[aikido7]

Originally posted by Jefferson
karstkid:

To answer your question: No, I am not willing to fellowship with homosexuals in order to witness to them. I'll witness to them at work and in public debates and situations like that but I am not going out to lunch with one of them. They are too vile to associate with.

Surely not as vile as tax collectors, whores or pus-faced lepers!

 

[karstkid]

Response to Jefferson:

So, you're telling me that you will not practice what you preach. You'll throw darts at them from a safe distance, but you will not associate or even eat with them as Jesus did to the people who were considered vile in his day. So you are just talk and no action. Then you truly are a hypocrite. Also, your seething hatred against them is not from God. That much hatred has only one source, the pit of hell.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by aikido7
Surely not as vile as tax collectors, whores or pus-faced lepers!

I have to admit, tax collectors run a very close second.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by karstkid
Response to Jefferson:

So, you're telling me that you will not practice what you preach. You'll throw darts at them from a safe distance, but you will not associate or even eat with them as Jesus did to the people who were considered vile in his day. So you are just talk and no action. Then you truly are a hypocrite. Also, your seething hatred against them is not from God. That much hatred has only one source, the pit of hell.

My, my. Such melodramatics. There is no reference in the Bible that Jesus ever associated with homosexuals. I'm following His example.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by karstkid
Response to Jefferson:

Yes, I would feed them and at the same time rebuke their sin if necessary and encourage them to come to Jesus.

"If necessary?" How would it not be necessary to rebuke them for their homosexual acts?

 

[karstkid]

Response to Jefferson:

Quote:
My, my. Such melodramatics. There is no reference in the Bible that Jesus ever associated with homosexuals. I'm following His example.

LOL You show melodramatics in your extreme hatred of homosexuals. Are you a skin head or a member of the Nazi party or the KKK? They are the type that would show that much hatred toward homosexuals.

Jesus loves homosexuals like all other sinners. You show me in the Gospels how Jesus hated homosexuals.

 

[karstkid]

Response to Jefferson:

Quote:
"If necessary?" How would it not be necessary to rebuke them for their homosexual acts?

Duh! There are harden homosexuals like there are hardened heterosexuals. There are/were homosexuals that are/were very open to the love of God with little or no rebuke necessary. The Love of Christ has the power to change lives. That Love you seem to know little about. When it comes down to the Love of God you are a bull in a china closet.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." Gal. 5:22-23

Well, what about it? Where's your's?

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by karstkid
Response to Jefferson:

Are you a skin head or a member of the Nazi party or the KKK?

Ad hominem.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by karstkid
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." Gal. 5:22-23

Well, what about it? Where's your's?

Biblical love (as opposed to cowardly love that worships the false god of Public Acceptance) is found in Romans 12:9 - "Don't let your love be with hypocrisy, hate evil."

 

[Jefferson]

Does God hate sinners? Should we follow His example?

2 Chronicles 19:2 - "Should you help the ungodly and love those who hate Jehovah? And by this bring wrath on you from before Jehovah."

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in Your sight. You hate all doers of iniquity.

Psalm 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalm 11:5 Jehovah tries the righteous; but His soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.

Psalm 139:21,22 O Jehovah, do I not hate those who hate You? And am I not grieved with those who rise up against You? I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies.

Ecclesiastes 3:8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Ezekiel 23:28 For so says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I will give you into the hand of those whom you hate, into the hand of whom your soul was alienated from them.

Hosea 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal, for there I hated them. I will drive them out of My house for the wickedness of their doings. I will love them no more; all their rulers are revolters.

Zechariah 11:8 I also cut off three shepherds in one month. And My soul loathed them, and their soul also detested Me.

Leviticus 20:23 And you shall not walk in the ways of the nation which I cast out before you. For they committed all these things, and therefore I loathed them.

Proverbs 16-19 These six things the LORD hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him: a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among the brethren. (Notice the progression in this passage is from head to feet. He begins with the eyes (the proud look), then proceeds to the tongue, then to the hands, then to the heart, and then finally to the feet. In other words, God hates the sinner from head to feet. Again notice that God does not hate false witnessing, rather He hates the "false witness" himself. And notice that God does not just hate discord, he hates the "one" who sows that discord.)

 

[aikido7]

Karskid, I see by the Theology Online format you have been designated as a "trainee," having made just a few posts. Your outrage and frustration are understandable, but many "moderators" and other posters here will continue to stand up and witness for their interpretation of the Bible. They gather up the pearls from Scripture and thread them together wily-nilly to justify their weltanschauung--which, upon investigation, is secular rather than theological. Once they have strung their pearls, they parade as the "religious" have always done, relishing their decorations and enviously comparing them with those of their neighbor.

Opinion posing as righteousness is a potent force. Many of the postings on this board will show examples of this posing.

Just keep standing up for and with Jesus. Learn all you can about Him, positive and negative. Read progressive theologians, conservative scholars and other Christian writers. Study Jewish and Islamic writings as well, for they all claim common patronage from Abraham. And lastly, try to experience his example and spirit in your own heart.

_______________________________


Jefferson, why have many on these boards have no intention of observing a single other statute in Leviticus but get so focused on 18:22? Why do they seem to ignore all the rest and call it biblical scholarship? What makes them quick to quote Paul and ignore Jesus' open embrace of all?

They talk about protecting the unity of the church, as if disunity were someone else's fault. They demonize others in order to turn a tide they happen to resent.

Christians aren't of one mind about many things, and certainly not about human partnerships. Even though Jesus said virtually nothing about such matters, many believers torment themselves searching for right opinion, and then turn and torment other people in trying to enforce right opinion.

As a "moderator" I think you have a responsibility to moderate. This does not mean you must jettison your interpretations or opinions of God's word, as long as you are honest about acknowledging them as your human views. Just try and leave the "enforcing" to the politically-correct police!

 

[AROTO]

And what about not-so-blatent sin? Sin that isn't obvious, that most others don't see? Such sin puts you under God's condemnation as much as homosexuality.
***********************************************

It seems that you are trying to say that all sins are equal in how bad they are. Isn't it much worse to rape and kill someone, compared to steeling a candy bar? We need to rebuke with force in love. If my son was to kill someone, what should his punishment be? Death. If he stole a candy bar, it we be more appropriate for a strong spanking! Homosexuality is a very distructive lifestyle and the public at large needs to re-stigmatize that behavior!

 

[aikido7]

Originally posted by AROTO
... Homosexuality is a very distructive lifestyle and the public at large needs to re-stigmatize that behavior!

The sin, it seems to me, would be profligacy and hypocrisy--a sin equally destructive in both homosexual and heterosexual lifestyles.

Jesus certainly had a lot to say about hypocrisy.

 

[aikido7]

Homophobic or fear of homophobia?

Homophobic or fear of homophobia?

Gays and faggots are bad, gays and faggots are good.

The importance of metaphor has long been pointed out, but a good explanation rarely gets studied. Lakoff's piece here (linked below) is useful for all those who wonder why the other guy--in the other religion, in the other church, or even the other guy sitting next to us in the pew--just "doesn't get it."

Metaphor is important. When someone says "I don't believe in America anymore," they are not referring to the land mass between Canada and Mexico. Mixing up the concrete with the metaphorical can lead to misunderstanding at best, and acts of war at worst.

I would be interested in any comments to the link.

http://www.wwcd.org/issues/Lakoff.html

 

[AROTO]

The sin, it seems to me, would be profligacy and hypocrisy--a sin equally destructive in both homosexual and heterosexual lifestyles.
**************************************************

By all means hypocrisy is wrong and sinful, and we are all sinners period. I by no means am saying that heterosexuals don't sin. Sex is not just for a "man" and a "woman" It is for a husband and wife to become one. God spells out in the bible that homsexsuality is wrong and punishable by death. America is now just like so many other nations, fallen flat on its face. Fact is, if more people took a stand for what is right and Godly, crime would be down, homosexuals would be criminals again, abortion would be considered what it is, Murder!!!

 

[aikido7]

Again, as I asked Jefferson, "why have many on these boards have no intention of observing a single other statute in Leviticus but get so focused on 18:22? Why do they seem to ignore all the rest and call it biblical scholarship? What makes them quick to quote Paul and ignore Jesus' open embrace of all?"

Love your neighbor AS yourself. He either said it or he didn't.

 

[.Ant]

Originally posted by Jefferson
.Ant, regarding Romans 13:4 you wrote:

This is about the authority of government to punish wrongdoing. It doesn't specifically mention the death penalty.

What do you think the governing authorities used the "sword" in verse 14 for? Tickling?

Well, yes.

Doesn't the sword refer to punishment in general, not only the death penalty?

Originally posted by Jefferson

This verse does not endorse the death penalty. Paul is under Roman law, and is willing to accept the legal punishment. Just because I murder someone in a country where the penality for murder is death, and I accept my punishment, doesn't mean I endorse the death penalty as a whole.

Paul did not say, "If I am guilty of doing anything that your law says is deserving of death . . ." Rather he said, "If I am guilty of doing anything deserving of death . . ." If Paul agreed that he committed a captital crime that IS deserving of death, not only in Paul's eyes but in God's eyes as well, then Paul did "not refuse to die."

So? I'll readily admit homosexuality deserves death. As does lying.

You didn't really respond to the point you quoted above. I don't have a problem with the death penalty as such, but I do have a problem with the combination of the death penalty and our legal system.

 

[aikido7]

Paul also demanded obedience to government, but that apparently didn't stop American colonists from breaking away to form a disobedient nation. But they called it "God's country," of course....

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by aikido7
Jefferson, why have many on these boards have no intention of observing a single other statute in Leviticus but get so focused on 18:22?

I'll talk about any verse in Leviticus you want. Lev. 18:22 is discussed in this thread because the subject of this thread is about "homophobia" (so-called). Why would you expect us to be discussing the very next verse (on bestiality) in a thread like this? By the way, do you think God was unloving for commanding the death penalty for homosexual acts in Lev. 18:22?

Why do they seem to ignore all the rest and call it biblical scholarship?

I don't. The entire Bible needs to be understood from a birds-eye view in order to make sense of the details. You've got to see the entire Biblical forest first in order to make sense of individual doctrinal trees.

What makes them quick to quote Paul and ignore Jesus' open embrace of all?

"Jesus' open embrace of all?" (Here comes aikido7's blind date with Jesus):

• Many people were "offended" by Jesus (Mat. 11:2-19).
  
• Mat 10:14 - "And whoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet."
  
• Mat 15:12,14 - "Then His disciples came and said to Him, Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying? . . . 'Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind.'"
  
• Luke 13:31,32 - "The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying to Him, Go out and depart from here, for Herod will kill you. And He said to them, You go and tell that fox, Behold, today and tomorrow, I cast out demons and I complete cures, and the third day I will be finished.
  
• Mat. 23:15 - "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you compass sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, you make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."
  
• John 8:44 - "Ye are of your father the devil. . ."
  
• Mark 11:15 - "And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;"
  
• Mat. 7:6 - "Do not give that which is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine,"

aikido7, now that your blind date with Jesus is over I have a question for you: Did you enjoy it?