ECT WHY GLOSSA /TONGUES ARE NOT FOR TODAY !!

[Puppet]

Jesus tells us exactly whom he chooses to save and why.

We are expected to become those Jesus saves.

Your doctrines are a perversion of the Truth of God and the way of salvation. You have no scriptural foundation. You were never taught by the prophets of the Old Testament Church, nor by the apostles of the Lamb in the New. Basically you are a revival of the ancient semi- Pelagian heresy condemned by the Church of God.

 

[God's Truth]

Your are too irrational for me. In the future, I will just ignore you silliness as to a sustainable discussion. I just hope you are not a teacher within the church.

I argued that Acts 2 was a ONE TIME event, and asked that you give me a second example. And you, my confused friend, told me that that a second example was not necessary, implying that one example is good for two, apparently/ Geeeeesh.

You only have insults to defend your false doctrines, because you do not have truth to defend it.

You do not believe the one example; why would you believe a second example? We only need one.

 

[God's Truth]

Your doctrines are a perversion of the Truth of God and the way of salvation.

You do not have truth either, and you must resort to insults.

You have no scriptural foundation.

I prove all my beliefs with scripture.

You were never taught by the prophets of the Old Testament Church, nor by the apostles of the Lamb in the New. Basically you are a revival of the ancient semi- Pelagian heresy condemned by the Church of God.

I go against all false teachings.

 

[jsjohnnt]

You only have insults to defend your false doctrines, because you do not have truth to defend it.

You do not believe the one example; why would you believe a second example? We only need one.

This is an outright falsehood. I thoroughly believe the "one example" and you know it. Its your phantom 2nd example I do not believe. But you apparently do not understand the difference between pattern authority (I Cor 14 and the instructions to that church and, by rite of association, all churches including 21st century churches) and a single, historic event (Acts 2). Good night.

 

[God's Truth]

This is an outright falsehood. I thoroughly believe the "one example" and you know it. Its your phantom 2nd example I do not believe. But you apparently do not understand the difference between pattern authority (I Cor 14 and the instructions to that church and, by rite of association, all churches including 21st century churches) and a single, historic event (Acts 2). Good night.

I have explained it carefully to you many times. Just because you do not understand, it does not mean I am guilty of what you accuse me.

I will explain it to you again.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:21 says, " In the Law it is written:"Through men of strange tongues

and through the lips of foreigners

I will speak to this people,



Paul is speaking about tongues.

Paul is speaking about tongues to the Corinthians.

Paul is explaining tongues to the Corinthians.

Paul is explaining to the Corinthians that tongues is a sign to the Jews as prophesied in the old law.

That proves that it is the same tongues in Corinth as in Acts; in Acts where many Jews from every nation had gathered.

Acts 2:5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

 

[Puppet]

You do not have truth either, and you must resort to insults.


I prove all my beliefs with scripture.



I go against all false teachings.

Peter was talking about a historical fact not an ongoing process.

 

[jsjohnnt]

I have explained it carefully to you many times. Just because you do not understand, it does not mean I am guilty of what you accuse me.

I will explain it to you again.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:21 says, " In the Law it is written:"Through men of strange tongues

and through the lips of foreigners

I will speak to this people,



Paul is speaking about tongues.

Paul is speaking about tongues to the Corinthians.

Paul is explaining tongues to the Corinthians.

Paul is explaining to the Corinthians that tongues is a sign to the Jews as prophesied in the old law.

That proves that it is the same tongues in Corinth as in Acts; in Acts where many Jews from every nation had gathered.

Acts 2:5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

You write: “Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:21 says, " In the Law it is written:"Through men of strange tongues” as if this is a second historical example.. It is not a second example to Acts 2.

Secondly, Acts 2 stands along as a historical event – a once in all biblical history sort of thing.

Understand that Is. 28:11,12 (the reference Paul has in mind in 14:21 ?), is fulfilled anytime there is tongues with understanding. Acts 2 and I Corinthians 14 have a common prophetical reality, but they are very different as historical events. And there is no scripture that comes to mind, for Paul's use of tongues as a prayer language, but, there it is, Paul telling us how he uses the gift in a personal sense of the word.

Acts 2 records languages spoken that COULD NOT BE CONFUSED with “tongues of angels.” And, to make matters worse for you, there was no need for the GIFT of interpretation. None of this is true for the practice of tongues in the Corinthian Church.

When you write, “That proves that it is the same tongues in Corinth as in Acts; in Acts where many Jews from every nation had gathered,” you are being dishonest, in my opinion, because you ignore the comparative facts of the two passages as I have just outlined. To argue against this, is just being stubborn, not exegetical.

Finally, the tongues of Isaiah 28:11,12 a sign to all unbelievers, not just for the Jews, and your repeated assertions, otherwise, do not change the facts of the matter. I Corinthians 14:22 says “for . . . unbelievers,” not “for . . . the Jews only.”

 

[jsjohnnt]

God's Truth writes: "I go against all false teachings."

Just curious, but, do you consider the possibility of being wrong about your doctrine? I mean, you write without humility, evidence to me, that you actually think you are correct about all matters, biblical, and are not in need of correction on any issue. Is that correct? And if not, what is your belief about the possibility that you are wrong . . . . . . . about something, even ALL THINGS, biblical? I am not talking about you being wrong, only about the very real possibility that you are wrong, about anything and everything.

I study to confirm and correct, among other reasons. You study for the purpose of correcting all of mankind and bringing them to your interpretation of the biblical message. Again, if this is wrong, please correct and explain.

 

[Cross Reference]

You write: “Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:21 says, " In the Law it is written:"Through men of strange tongues” as if this is a second historical example.. It is not a second example to Acts 2.

Secondly, Acts 2 stands along as a historical event – a once in all biblical history sort of thing.

Acts 10 and 19 easily refute that __ and who knows what other event went unrecorded that you are happy they weren't.

 

[God's Truth]

You write: “Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:21 says, " In the Law it is written:"Through men of strange tongues” as if this is a second historical example.. It is not a second example to Acts 2.

I have already told you that we do not have to have a second example to confirm anything. PAUL HIMSELF confirms that it is the same.

Secondly, Acts 2 stands along as a historical event – a once in all biblical history sort of thing.

Understand that Is. 28:11,12 (the reference Paul has in mind in 14:21 ?), is fulfilled anytime there is tongues with understanding.

No. Just stop it. Paul confirms the tongues are the same.

Acts 2 and I Corinthians 14 have a common prophetical reality, but they are very different as historical events. And there is no scripture that comes to mind, for Paul's use of tongues as a prayer language, but, there it is, Paul telling us how he uses the gift in a personal sense of the word.

Acts 2 records languages spoken that COULD NOT BE CONFUSED with “tongues of angels.” And, to make matters worse for you, there was no need for the GIFT of interpretation. None of this is true for the practice of tongues in the Corinthian Church.

When you write, “That proves that it is the same tongues in Corinth as in Acts; in Acts where many Jews from every nation had gathered,” you are being dishonest, in my opinion, because you ignore the comparative facts of the two passages as I have just outlined. To argue against this, is just being stubborn, not exegetical.

Finally, the tongues of Isaiah 28:11,12 a sign to all unbelievers, not just for the Jews, and your repeated assertions, otherwise, do not change the facts of the matter. I Corinthians 14:22 says “for . . . unbelievers,” not “for . . . the Jews only.”

You are going against the Apostle Paul. You are going against the Word of God.

 

[God's Truth]

God's Truth writes: "I go against all false teachings."

Just curious, but, do you consider the possibility of being wrong about your doctrine? I mean, you write without humility, evidence to me, that you actually think you are correct about all matters, biblical, and are not in need of correction on any issue. Is that correct? And if not, what is your belief about the possibility that you are wrong . . . . . . . about something, even ALL THINGS, biblical? I am not talking about you being wrong, only about the very real possibility that you are wrong, about anything and everything.

I study to confirm and correct, among other reasons. You study for the purpose of correcting all of mankind and bringing them to your interpretation of the biblical message. Again, if this is wrong, please correct and explain.

I tell you what...you rewrite this hypocritical post to me, and then I will answer you.

I can hardly believe that you cannot see what a hypocrite you make yourself out to be...falsely judging me, telling me about being humble...why don't you show some of that humbleness?

 

[jsjohnnt]

I tell you what...you rewrite this hypocritical post to me, and then I will answer you.

I can hardly believe that you cannot see what a hypocrite you make yourself out to be...falsely judging me, telling me about being humble...why don't you show some of that humbleness?

I will not pretend that I am above criticism. I will keep your complaint in mind, as I write in the future.

Having said that, tell me what your belief is about you and knowing "the truth." Do you believe that you can be mistaken in your doctrine? Do you believe that you have ever taught wrong doctrine?

As to this current discussion, what do I need to do that I have not already done, in this discussion about Acts 2 and I Corinthians 14?

Update: On second thought, thank you for your criticism. I am a very aggressive fellow. If you and I sat across from each other, what you see as harsh, in my writing, would seem only emphatic, in a face to face discussion. At any rate, I try not to add to the angst that is so rampant here at TOL regardless of the responses back to me. The pledge is not to you, but to myself. Unfortunately, I need to be reminded of this pledge, from time to time.

Now, please review my questions, above, and give me an answer, if you will.

 

[jsjohnnt]

When God's Truth started talking about verb tenses, a couple of weeks ago, I realized the writer was self taught (nothing wrong with that if you don't start thinking that you know more than you know).

With that in mind, here are some comments that I hope help the non-seminary student:

Here is a question all of us need to answer, and maybe it belongs on its own thread:

How do we, as 21st century types, bridge the gap between the biblical message in the Greek and Hebrew?

I can’t speak for everyone, but this is my answer:

First, I have virtually every major Bible translation. For the most part, that will serve the serious student, quite well. When reading for comparison sake, you will find that some translations will include particular verses that others do not. If you believe that evil men translate and subvert the “word of God,” you will approach the translation with a partisan bias that prohibits an objective reading of the text in whatever version, and, especially, an objective consideration of any given doctrine.

Secondly, if you will use discussions such as what we see on TOL (other than the thread that wants to kill the gay folks) , as an opportunity for the reconsideration of what you believe, always reading the Bible “as if for the first,”


There is the matter of the original languages and how we might access their meaning. In a word, you can start with Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance . It is sold as a comprehensive concordance with lexicons for each language (Hebrew and Greek)

If you are not accomplished in either language, you might even purchase a dedicated lexicon (Arnt/Gingrich, [naming these authors date me, I know . . . . a more common author for the same lexicon is Walter Baurer] ) or even, the older but wonderful lexicon by Thayer. You can locate the lexical gk word in Strong’s, hunt and peck until you find it in the larger lexions. Understand that you can read 90% of anything written in a Gk/English lexicon.

A good gk grammar (Dana and Mantey, Summers, William Mounce, Young, or the very popular grammar by Wallace) would be great. If you have no background, skip the technical stuff, such as declensions, verbal roots, locations and conjugations, and just go for the parts you can understand. You will be surprised at how much you can benefit from such books . . . . just don’t start thinking you know more than you know.

But, I am running off into weeds, here. Just don’t get in the habit of despising those who have a knowledge of Greek. Arrogance for those trained in “the languages” is also a potential problem to be avoided.

I know how maddening it can be to have studied with diligence, enough so that you feel qualified to formulate a particular teaching, only to have someone come along and burst your bubble with technical jargon that is not part of your background.

In summary, English translations and comparative readings, a Strong's Concordance with all the bells and whistles, and the willing to read the Bible "as if for the first time," every time you pick up the Good Book, will do you just fine.

 

[God's Truth]

I will not pretend that I am above criticism. I will keep your complaint in mind, as I write in the future.

Having said that, tell me what your belief is about you and knowing "the truth." Do you believe that you can be mistaken in your doctrine? Do you believe that you have ever taught wrong doctrine?

As to this current discussion, what do I need to do that I have not already done, in this discussion about Acts 2 and I Corinthians 14?

Update: On second thought, thank you for your criticism. I am a very aggressive fellow. If you and I sat across from each other, what you see as harsh, in my writing, would seem only emphatic, in a face to face discussion. At any rate, I try not to add to the angst that is so rampant here at TOL regardless of the responses back to me. The pledge is not to you, but to myself. Unfortunately, I need to be reminded of this pledge, from time to time.

Now, please review my questions, above, and give me an answer, if you will.

I have never 'taught' anyone a wrong belief.

After I was saved, I let pastors talk me into speaking in tongues, and interpreting what I said.

Years later, a family member asked me about speaking in tongues and wanted me to explain it. I tried to explain it...and then the Holy Spirit put it upon my heart that I knew nothing about it according to the scriptures.

It dawned on me that I had not been careful about getting back into ANY teachings of men.

I studied intently for sometime about speaking in tongues, and God revealed His Truth to me about it.

 

[God's Truth]

When God's Truth started talking about verb tenses, a couple of weeks ago, I realized the writer was self taught (nothing wrong with that if you don't start thinking that you know more than you know).

With that in mind, here are some comments that I hope help the non-seminary student:

I have been taught by God.

What is seminary but you choosing a man who tickles your ears.

Jesus tells us to whom he reveals himself, and it is not to those who went to seminary school.

Here is a question all of us need to answer, and maybe it belongs on its own thread:

How do we, as 21st century types, bridge the gap between the biblical message in the Greek and Hebrew?

I can’t speak for everyone, but this is my answer:

First, I have virtually every major Bible translation. For the most part, that will serve the serious student, quite well. When reading for comparison sake, you will find that some translations will include particular verses that others do not. If you believe that evil men translate and subvert the “word of God,” you will approach the translation with a partisan bias that prohibits an objective reading of the text in whatever version, and, especially, an objective consideration of any given doctrine.

Secondly, if you will use discussions such as what we see on TOL (other than the thread that wants to kill the gay folks) , as an opportunity for the reconsideration of what you believe, always reading the Bible “as if for the first,”


There is the matter of the original languages and how we might access their meaning. In a word, you can start with Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance . It is sold as a comprehensive concordance with lexicons for each language (Hebrew and Greek)

If you are not accomplished in either language, you might even purchase a dedicated lexicon (Arnt/Gingrich, [naming these authors date me, I know . . . . a more common author for the same lexicon is Walter Baurer] ) or even, the older but wonderful lexicon by Thayer. You can locate the lexical gk word in Strong’s, hunt and peck until you find it in the larger lexions. Understand that you can read 90% of anything written in a Gk/English lexicon.

A good gk grammar (Dana and Mantey, Summers, William Mounce, Young, or the very popular grammar by Wallace) would be great. If you have no background, skip the technical stuff, such as declensions, verbal roots, locations and conjugations, and just go for the parts you can understand. You will be surprised at how much you can benefit from such books . . . . just don’t start thinking you know more than you know.

But, I am running off into weeds, here. Just don’t get in the habit of despising those who have a knowledge of Greek. Arrogance for those trained in “the languages” is also a potential problem to be avoided.

I know how maddening it can be to have studied with diligence, enough so that you feel qualified to formulate a particular teaching, only to have someone come along and burst your bubble with technical jargon that is not part of your background.

In summary, English translations and comparative readings, a Strong's Concordance with all the bells and whistles, and the willing to read the Bible "as if for the first time," every time you pick up the Good Book, will do you just fine.

Reading dictionaries and studying Greek is not going to do anything to know God and Jesus.

In fact, it will probably make one further from the truth.

 

[Cross Reference]

It dawned on me that I had not been careful about getting back into ANY teachings of men.

That's good but don't throw the baby out with the bath water, as the saying goes, you seem to be doing.

I studied intently for sometime about speaking in tongues, and God revealed His Truth to me about it.

Well, apparently you missed something because I speak in tongues in my private life when praising God that glorifies Him __ and in no way is it of me. I consider it to be the overflow of my praises to Him, meaning it happens when I run out words when praising Him.

 

[DAN P]

Where does it say it was for the Jews?

Why, in private, did Paul speak in tongues?

Hi and in 1 Cor 1:22 says , Seeing that both (the ) Jews are asking for a SIGN and ( the ) Greeks are SEEKING for Wisdom .


Where /Why , did Paul , in Private speak in GLOSSA / TONGUES / Languages ?

dan p

 

[jsjohnnt]

God's Truth wrote, "I have been taught by God. What is seminary but you choosing a man who tickles your ears. Jesus tells us to whom he reveals himself, and it is not to those who went to seminary school."

My first test, and its coming from someone who just labeled me a hypocrite.

You are no more taught by God than I. Someone once wrote, [As to the first subordinate presupoosition for all theoogies], we have " . . . the general event of human existence in it insoluble dialectic, which, theology sees confronted by the self-proclamation of God in the Gospel." I am sure God will translate my words in English, for you. Let me know when that happens.

And, us seminary types not being of God? Really? So why the arrogance and snobbery? Next time, just leave off your critique of us hypocrites, thank you very much. Your words were fairly meaningless, although I shall take my pledge more seriously.

Oh, just curious about this: I have my seminary but you deem that "unnecessary," to say the least. Question: why do any of us need our bibles or our edg-ju-ma-cation, when we have you as a seer from God? Splain please. You should know that this is a serious question, not an insult. Looking forward to your answer . . . . . . as soon as God gives it to you. If I don't hear from you soon, I will assume you are out, sitting under the Elijah Tree, waiting for God to speak to his lonely prophetess in his own, due time.

BTW, I rephrased and still no answer from the one who gets all her knowledge directly from God. That is what you believe, correct?

 

[God's Truth]

That's good but don't throw the baby out with the bath water, as the saying goes, you seem to be doing.

I am not doing that. I was speaking in tongues to God and interpreting for years. Throwing anything out would not be done without being sure.

Well, apparently you missed something because I speak in tongues in my private life when praising God that glorifies Him __ and in no way is it of me.

If we can continue to speak to each other deeply like this...please think back, did you ever watch anyone ever do this before you did this yourself? If yes, then how do you know for sure that it is a supernatural speaking and not something taught by men?

Please also know that I am not questioning your salvation...as I said before, I myself spoke in tongues and interpreted, and I know I was saved. Does that mean I was speaking in real tongues? No, it does not mean that.

I consider it to be the overflow of my praises to Him, meaning it happens when I run out words when praising Him.

If you run out of words, how then are you interpreting?

Paul says to interpret, and that is even if we are praying, praising, or singing.

Paul says if you do not, then you have a fruitless mind.

I do know what you mean though when you say you run out of words...

Before I was saved, I read this poem, by anonymous. When I first read it, I thought the person was treating God as a Jeanie or something. However, I was drawn to this poem and would say it often, wondering what it meant. After Jesus saved me, I understood exactly what it means.

A Grateful Heart

O Lord, grant me just one thing,
a grateful heart.
Not a thankful heart, when it pleaseth me, as if Thy blessings have spare days, but one whose pulse may be Thy praise.
O Lord, grant me just one thing,
a grateful heart.

 

[God's Truth]

God's Truth wrote, "I have been taught by God. What is seminary but you choosing a man who tickles your ears. Jesus tells us to whom he reveals himself, and it is not to those who went to seminary school."

My first test, and its coming from someone who just labeled me a hypocrite.

You are no more taught by God than I. Someone once wrote, [As to the first subordinate presupoosition for all theoogies], we have " . . . the general event of human existence in it insoluble dialectic, which, theology sees congreonted by the self-proclamation of God in the Gospel."

And, us seminary types not being of God? Really? So why the arrogance and snobbery?

You are the one who taunted that I was self taught and did not go to seminary school.

Next time, just leave off your critique of us hypocrites, thank you very much. You words were fairly meaningless, although I shall take my pledge more seriously.

Jesus says he gives knowledge and wisdom to those who get his teachings and obeys them.

BTW, I rephrased and still no answer from the one who gets all her knowledge directly from God. That is what you believe, correct?

How do you get that I did not answer your question?