Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[JudgeRightly]

No its truth.

What you said:

Those Christ died for are Justified from sin before Faith

... is false.

It is NOT before faith that we are justified.

By the way, something I forgot to address:

Those Christ died for

Christ died for the ungodly.

We are Justified by the blood of Christ Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

No one said otherwise.

Of course, by "we" you want it to mean "the elect," which makes what you said even more incorrect. "We" in the Body of Christ are not "the elect." Elect means someone who is chosen for a task. We in the Body of Christ are not.

Faith is how one knows they have been Justified by Blood.

No one said otherwise.

I have a whole thread explaining this!

Yawn. You have so many threads talking about so many different minutiae that it's easier for everyone if you just address the person responding to you when they respond to you, rather than just saying "I have a thread on this, go read it".

Try addressing what I say, rather than reading the first sentence, disagreeing, and moving on. You might learn something.

 

[beloved57]

Writers comments on Gal 2:16

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The verb “justify” is in the passive voice, thus, literally, it is “to be justified.” It occurs here for the first time in Paul’s epistles, and no less than three times in one verse (v. 16). Justification is not something we do. It is something done for us and given to us freely. It is the gracious act of God, whereby, on the basis solely of Christ’s accomplished mediatorial work, he declares the sinner just. The work was done by the decree of God in eternity (Rom. 8:29-30). Yes, all God’s elect were in the purpose of God justified from eternity, by the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. Our justification was obtained by Christ when he died at Calvary as our Substitute. He was delivered unto death by the sword of divine justice because of our sins imputed to him, and raised again by the glory of God because of our justification accomplished by his sacrifice (Rom. 4:25). Faith in Christ does not accomplish justification, but receives it as the free grace gift of God (Rom. 5:1, 10-11; 8:1, 30, 33; Tit. 3:7). Faith in Christ is not a condition upon which justification is granted, but one of the many, blessed fruits of justification accomplished. It is not our faith that justifies us, but Christ who is the Object of our faith.

Justification is a judicial act of God. It does not come as the result of man’s effort (Rom. 3:20, 28; Gal. 3:11; 5:4). It is not even the result of faith (Eph. 2:8). It took place when Christ satisfied the demands of the law as a Substitute for his elect (Rom. 3:24; 2 Cor. 5:21; Eph. 1:7). Man can never earn it. He only receives it by faith. And even the faith by which we receive it is the gift of God’s grace (Eph. 2:8). “Man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.”https://www.pristinegrace.org/books...ortner/DF_Discovering Christ In Galatians.pdf

 

[JudgeRightly]

Ignoring my posts won't make them go away, B57.

Writers comments on Gal 2:16

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The verb “justify” is in the passive voice, thus, literally, it is “to be justified.” It occurs here for the first time in Paul’s epistles, and no less than three times in one verse (v. 16). Justification is not something we do. It is something done for us and given to us freely. It is the gracious act of God, whereby, on the basis solely of Christ’s accomplished mediatorial work, he declares the sinner just. The work was done by the decree of God in eternity (Rom. 8:29-30). Yes, all God’s elect were in the purpose of God justified from eternity, by the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. Our justification was obtained by Christ when he died at Calvary as our Substitute. He was delivered unto death by the sword of divine justice because of our sins imputed to him, and raised again by the glory of God because of our justification accomplished by his sacrifice (Rom. 4:25). Faith in Christ does not accomplish justification, but receives it as the free grace gift of God (Rom. 5:1, 10-11; 8:1, 30, 33; Tit. 3:7). Faith in Christ is not a condition upon which justification is granted, but one of the many, blessed fruits of justification accomplished. It is not our faith that justifies us, but Christ who is the Object of our faith.

Justification is a judicial act of God. It does not come as the result of man’s effort (Rom. 3:20, 28; Gal. 3:11; 5:4). It is not even the result of faith (Eph. 2:8). It took place when Christ satisfied the demands of the law as a Substitute for his elect (Rom. 3:24; 2 Cor. 5:21; Eph. 1:7). Man can never earn it. He only receives it by faith. And even the faith by which we receive it is the gift of God’s grace (Eph. 2:8). “Man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.”https://www.pristinegrace.org/books...ortner/DF_Discovering Christ In Galatians.pdf

He's wrong, of course.

Yes, we are justified by God alone.

But we as humans bear the responsibility (or as Dr. Leighton Flowers puts it, the "response-ability") for either accepting or rejecting that justification.

Christ made the first move by going to the cross.

The ball's in our (every individual man's) court, either we place our faith in what he has done, or we don't. But God gets all the credit for saving those that do, and the credit for rejecting Him goes to those that do not place their faith in what He has done.

 

[beloved57]

Ignoring my posts won't make them go away, B57.



He's wrong, of course.

Yes, we are justified by God alone.

But we as humans bear the responsibility (or as Dr. Leighton Flowers puts it, the "response-ability") for either accepting or rejecting that justification.

Christ made the first move by going to the cross.

The ball's in our (every individual man's) court, either we place our faith in what he has done, or we don't. But God gets all the credit for saving those that do, and the credit for rejecting Him goes to those that do not place their faith in what He has done.

So you see, I bring no novel doctrine, but truth God has revealed to other men, but you will not receive this truth about Justification.

 

[JudgeRightly]

So you see, I bring no novel doctrine, but truth

SAYING IT DOESN'T MAKE IT SO.

God has revealed to other men,

And what would you do if I had made the same claim to revelation from God that "God revealed to me that he and you are wrong"?

What then?

I won't, of course, because there's no way that such a claim can be verified.

Rather, I rely on the revealed word of God that He gave us, called the Bible.

I'll take what the Bible says over what some man says any day.

but you will not receive this truth about Justification.

Calling some man's opinions "truth" doesn't make it so.

Also, there are some things he said which are correct, but the rest of it was wrong, incorrect.

Trying to shoehorn in the correct parts to my rejection of his incorrect parts is dishonest, B57. Don't do that.

Now, if you would, please:

What you said:



... is false.

It is NOT before faith that we are justified.

By the way, something I forgot to address:



Christ died for the ungodly.



No one said otherwise.

Of course, by "we" you want it to mean "the elect," which makes what you said even more incorrect. "We" in the Body of Christ are not "the elect." Elect means someone who is chosen for a task. We in the Body of Christ are not.



No one said otherwise.



Yawn. You have so many threads talking about so many different minutiae that it's easier for everyone if you just address the person responding to you when they respond to you, rather than just saying "I have a thread on this, go read it".

Try addressing what I say, rather than reading the first sentence, disagreeing, and moving on. You might learn something.

Try to refute what I said, rather than running away.

 

[beloved57]

SAYING IT DOESN'T MAKE IT SO.



And what would you do if I had made the same claim to revelation from God that "God revealed to me that he and you are wrong"?

What then?

I won't, of course, because there's no way that such a claim can be verified.

Rather, I rely on the revealed word of God that He gave us, called the Bible.

I'll take what the Bible says over what some man says any day.



Calling some man's opinions "truth" doesn't make it so.

Also, there are some things he said which are correct, but the rest of it was wrong, incorrect.

Trying to shoehorn in the correct parts to my rejection of his incorrect parts is dishonest, B57. Don't do that.

Now, if you would, please:



Try to refute what I said, rather than running away.

Truth has to be said as a Testimony !

 

[JudgeRightly]

Truth has to be said as a Testimony !

Once again, ignoring my posts won't make them go away.

Try to refute what I said, rather than running away.

 

[beloved57]

.Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Such are justified by Christ, whose iniquities he bore; that is, suffered and satisfied for in his death: to this harmonize those writings of the apostle Paul , "He was delivered for our offences, and raised again for our justification," Rom. 4: 25

This is a legal fact while ungodly !

 

[beloved57]

Are men Justified before God while in a unregenerate , unbelieving, ungodly state ? The answer is yes, if they be Gods Elect, for scripture says Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Now are the Elect, Elect before God before they are regenerate and become believers ? Again Yes, its the same as saying Gods Sheep and His Sheep before they become believers. Remember Jesus said of His Sheep that had not yet believed Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep[elect] I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall[future] hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Also Paul writes that God Justified the Ungodly Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

John Gill writes on Rom 4:5

but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly: or that ungodly one: particular reference is had to Abraham, who in his state of unregeneracy was an ungodly person; as all God's elect are in a state of nature, and are such when God justifies them, being without a righteousness of their own; wherefore he imputes the righteousness of another, even that of his own Son, unto them:

 

[beloved57]

Rom 4:5 proves that the elect are in a state of Justification while in a state of ungodliness. Its comparable to the elect being reconciled to God while being enemies Rom 5:10

 

[beloved57]

God doesnt Justify the elect for their natural sinfulness, ungodliness, but because, Christ has died for them, and His Righteousness has been charged to their credit See 2 Cor 5:21. So they are legally righteous on a just ground, while they themselves are ungodly prior to conversion.

 

[beloved57]

Pay close attention to Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now the object of the believers Faith, is He God that Justifieth the ungodly ! Now if ungodly, then of course unbelievers.

 

[Nanja]

God doesnt Justify the elect for their natural sinfulness, ungodliness, but because, Christ has died for them, and His Righteousness has been charged to their credit See 2 Cor 5:21. So they are legally righteous on a just ground, while they themselves are ungodly prior to conversion.

Amen for sure !

 

[JudgeRightly]

Rom 4:5 proves that the elect are in a state of Justification while in a state of ungodliness. Its comparable to the elect being reconciled to God while being enemies Rom 5:10

God doesnt Justify the elect for their natural sinfulness, ungodliness, but because, Christ has died for them, and His Righteousness has been charged to their credit See 2 Cor 5:21. So they are legally righteous on a just ground, while they themselves are ungodly prior to conversion.

Pay close attention to Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now the object of the believers Faith, is He God that Justifieth the ungodly ! Now if ungodly, then of course unbelievers.

Once again, ignoring my posts won't make them go away.

Amen for sure !

He's wrong. "Amen"-ing someone who's wrong is bad.

 

[beloved57]

Now who is it that God Justifies ? Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

He Justifieth His Elect. Not everyone without exception, but Justification by the God of the Bible is reserved for only a elect people.

Jer 50:20

In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.

Pardon is synonymous with Justification and reserve has todo with a remnant as in a remnant according to election f grace Rom 11:4-5

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

 

[Nanja]

Now who is it that God Justifies ? Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

He Justifieth His Elect. Not everyone without exception, but Justification by the God of the Bible is reserved for only a elect people.

Jer 50:20

In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.

Pardon is synonymous with Justification and reserve has todo with a remnant as in a remnant according to election f grace Rom 11:4-5

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Excellent !

 

[JudgeRightly]

Now who is it that God Justifies ? Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

He Justifieth His Elect.

That's not even what the verse says!

All you have to do is READ THE VERSE WITHOUT YOUR CALVINIST GLASSES ON!

Not everyone without exception, but Justification by the God of the Bible is reserved for only a elect people.

Your premise is wrong, and therefore your conclusion is invalid, and your bias causes you to believe scripture says what you assume, without thinking for yourself.

Justification is given to those who believe, through Christ's righteous act!

Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. - Romans 5:18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans5:18&version=NKJV

Jer 50:20

In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.

Pardon is synonymous with Justification

Saying it doesn't make it so.

There is NO THESAURUS that would agree with you.

Pardon simply DOES NOT MEAN justify.

Here is the definition of pardon, according to Strong's:

Strong's h5545 - Lexical: סָלַח - Transliteration: salach - Part of Speech: Verb - Phonetic Spelling: saw-lakh' - Definition: to forgive, pardon. - Origin: A primitive root; to forgive. - Usage: forgive, pardon, spare. - Translated as (count): and it shall be forgiven (12), and forgive (10), Pardon (3), will release (3), and I will pardon (2), and pardon (2), forgive (2), may pardon (2), and shall be forgiven (1), and will forgive (1), have pardoned (1), I have pardoned (1), I will forgive (1), I will pardon (1), shall I pardon (1), spare (1), that I may forgive (1), who forgives (1), you (1).

Here is the definition of justify according to Strong's:

Strong's h6663 - Lexical: צָדַק - Transliteration: tsadeq - Part of Speech: Verb - Phonetic Spelling: tsaw-dak' - Definition: to be just or righteous. - Origin: A primitive root; to be (causatively, make) right (in a moral or forensic sense). - Usage: cleanse, clear self, (be, do) just(-ice, -ify, -ify self), (be turn to) righteous(-ness). - Translated as (count): you are righteous (3), and justifying (2), can be righteous (2), I were righteous (2), and Even I am righteous (1), and have justified (1), and they justify (1), and those who turn to righteousness (1), be righteous (1), be vindicated (1), because you justified (1), do justice (1), for (1), has shown righteous (1), he could be righteous (1), he justified (1), He who justifies (1), I am righteous (1), I should say are right (1), I will justify (1), is righteous (1), righteous (1), shall be justified (1), shall be vindicated (1), shall justify (1), shall we clear ourselves (1), She is more righteous (1), that they may be justified (1), then I would give him justice (1), then shall be cleansed (1), they are more righteous (1), who justifies Me (1), who justify (1), you may be acquitted (1), You may be found just (1), you may be justified (1).

They are not the same!

and reserve has todo with a remnant as in a remnant according to election of grace

It's talking about ISRAEL, you nincompoop!

It has NOTHING TO DO WITH GRACE!

Rom 11:4-5

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Grasping at straws.

Now:

Once again, ignoring my posts won't make them go away.

Go respond to what I wrote previously!

 

[beloved57]

Now even though God will only justify His Elect, yet He does it while they themselves are most ungodly . He is Justified before he is made a holy believer, but while ungodly, and dead in sin Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Eph 2:1,3

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

 

[beloved57]

@JudgeRightly

Saying it doesn't make it so.

There is NO THESAURUS that would agree with you.

Pardon simply DOES NOT MEAN justify.

Here is the definition of pardon, according to Strong's:

Sure pardon and Justify are synonymous . The word justifieth. in Rom 8:33 is the greek word dikaioó:

to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Usage: I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.

Now notice the word acquit:

to free from a charge of wrongdoing. And the Thesaurus for websters has as a synonym:

Words Related to acquit

• atone (for),
• expiate
• discharge,
• liberate,
• redeem,
• release,
• unburden
• condone,
• excuse,
• whitewash
• forgive,
• pardon,
• remit

Also the word pardon and its synonyms in the dictionary.com

SYNONYMS FOR pardon
​

Compare Synonyms

• absolve
• acquit
• discharge
• excuse
• exonerate
• tolerate
• accept
• amnesty
• clear
• condone
• exculpate
• free
• justify
• liberate
• lifeboat
• overlook
• release
• remit
• reprieve
• rescue
• spring
• blink at
• bury the hatchet
• give absolution
• grant amnesty
• let off
• let off easy
• suspend charges
• wink at
• wipe slate clean
• write off

See also synonyms for: pardoned

This is elementary sir !

 

[beloved57]

Another scripture that points out that Justification is only for Gods Elect as promised is Isa 45:25

In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. Cp Rom 8:33


33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

The elect and seed of Israel are the same.