Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[beloved57]

Indeed we were justified by his blood.

Those who choose to do Romans 10:9 are the ones that receive that justification.

Whosoever believes receives, no one else

False comment not in scripture

 

[oatmeal]

False comment not in scripture

Pray tell what specifically is false and what scripture do you misunderstand to show your opinion?

 

[oatmeal]

⁹ If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.



If you say Jesus is your Lord, then you had better be obeying him.




Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?


Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

James 1:22
Be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Otherwise, you are deceiving yourselves.

Are you denying Romans 10:9?

 

[God's Truth]

Are you denying Romans 10:9?

No way would I do that. I am showing you that Paul is not saying only believe and nothing else.

Are you denying what Jesus says?

 

[oatmeal]

No way would I do that. I am showing you that Paul is not saying only believe and nothing else.

Are you denying what Jesus says?

So where did I leave something out?

It takes believing that Jesus is Lord for it to matter. Likewise the individual must believe that God raised him from the dead.

Those are the two requirements that must be met.

They must believe both!

 

[God's Truth]

So where did I leave something out?

It takes believing that Jesus is Lord for it to matter. Likewise the individual must believe that God raised him from the dead.

Those are the two requirements that must be met.

They must believe both!

Paul says that if you believe Jesus is Lord then you WILL BE saved, not are saved.

Jesus says if you say I am Lord, then you have to obey me.

There are people that preach all you have to do is believe Jesus is Lord, but they have to believe that we have to obey Jesus.

 

[oatmeal]

Paul says that if you believe Jesus is Lord then you WILL BE saved, not are saved.

Jesus says if you say I am Lord, then you have to obey me.

There are people that preach all you have to do is believe Jesus is Lord, but they have to believe that we have to obey Jesus.

Yes, you will be saved, immediately, not in some future age, but immediately.

God is not slack concerning His promises.

Was the man with a withered hand, in Mark 3, told that he would have to wait for some future time to figure out if his hand was healed?

How about the rest of the healings in scripture, was the promise for some future age or immediately?

Did Jesus tell the devil spirits he cast out to take their time? Or to leave immediately?

Are none of the promises of God to be revealed in the here and now?

Is none of the word of God beneficial now?

I John 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.


Those who have received the gift of salvation/eternal life can know that they have received the gift.

It is God's will that we all are saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. I Timothy 2:4

The knowledge of the truth includes the promise of I John 5:3, that is, if a person is saved they can know it.

Why would a wise, loving God keep His children ignorant of the truth that they are indeed the children of God?

He doesn't keep them ignorant, they choose to remain ignorant.

Those who want to know can know. And that truth shall set them free. John 8:32

Did you parents tell you that they are your parents? Or did they keep you guessing so they could manipulate you with fear tactics?

God is love, He motivates with love, not fear.


For that matter, since all Christians keep sinning after salvation, it is clear that confessing Jesus as lord as in Romans 10:9 need only be momentary to receive salvation

Certainly, God would prefer that they keep Jesus lord, but none do.

No Christian carries out the will of God perfectly after salvation.

All Christians err, repeatedly after salvation is received.

Jesus Christ died paid the price for those sins as well.

We shouldn't sin after salvation, but we will and we do.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, you will be saved, immediately, not in some future age, but immediately.

No way, not always immediately, but some may be saved immediately. It depends on when God accepts you.

Acts 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

God is not slack concerning His promises.

Was the man with a withered hand, in Mark 3, told that he would have to wait for some future time to figure out if his hand was healed?

What does that have to do with receiving the Holy Spirit for salvation?

How about the rest of the healings in scripture, was the promise for some future age or immediately?

Jesus healing people does not mean what you are implying.

Did Jesus tell the devil spirits he cast out to take their time? Or to leave immediately?

Are none of the promises of God to be revealed in the here and now?

Is none of the word of God beneficial now?

First of all, people who did RIGHT were healed; and, or, people who asked for another did right. In addition, Jesus healing people was God testifying that what Jesus said was true.

I John 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.


Those who have received the gift of salvation/eternal life can know that they have received the gift.

It is God's will that we all are saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. I Timothy 2:4

The knowledge of the truth includes the promise of I John 5:3, that is, if a person is saved they can know it.

Why would a wise, loving God keep His children ignorant of the truth that they are indeed the children of God?

Are you saying a person won't know if they don't believe they just have to believe???

A person had DECEIVED themselves if they just believe and don't obey!


James 1:22 Be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Otherwise, you are deceiving yourselves.

He doesn't keep them ignorant, they choose to remain ignorant.

Those who want to know can know. And that truth shall set them free. John 8:32

Did you parents tell you that they are your parents? Or did they keep you guessing so they could manipulate you with fear tactics?

God is love, He motivates with love, not fear.


For that matter, since all Christians keep sinning after salvation, it is clear that confessing Jesus as lord as in Romans 10:9 need only be momentary to receive salvation

A person must train themselves and overcome sin.

A person must repent of their sins.

Train ourselves. Work out our salvation.

Luke 6:40 A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

1 Corinthians 9:25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.

1 Timothy 4:7, 8 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Titus 2:4 Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children,

Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Hebrews 12:11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.


Luke 6:40; Philippians 2:12; 1 Corinthians 9:25; 1 Timothy 4:7, 8; 2 Timothy 3:16; Titus 2:4; Hebrews 5:14; Hebrews 12:11

Certainly, God would prefer that they keep Jesus lord, but none do.

No Christian carries out the will of God perfectly after salvation.

All Christians err, repeatedly after salvation is received.

Jesus Christ died paid the price for those sins as well.

We shouldn't sin after salvation, but we will and we do.

Jesus says to repent of your sins and work out your salvation.

 

[Nanja]

To say a person is Justified before God by their believing, or because of their believing, is a flat out denial that one is Justifed by Christ; For there is a difference in what Christ did, and what the person does; Now if we acknowledge that our believing was a assent to the Truth of our Justification before God being already a accomplished fact and a done deal solely by Christ's Blood As Per Rom 5:9, then believing is just a good work and evidence of our Justification before God. For it is written Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Justification before God is the thing not seen by the physical Eye, but it must exist before Faith is the Evidence of it !

Ones now having evidence of it , is not what caused it to exist before God as a fact, prior to receiving evidence of it.

Amen Brother ! A person's Justification occurred solely based on the Merit of Christ's Obedience of shedding His Blood Rom. 5:9 on their behalf; which in the Mind and Purpose of God, occurred even before the foundation of the world 1 Pet. 1:20; Heb. 7:22. Hence in time, each one of them particularly, shall by God given Faith Gal. 5:22 in New Birth John 3:3,6, passively be given Faith to believe on Him Phil. 1:29a as evidence of Christ having made them Righteous before God.

Therefore, the only kind of Faith / Believing that pleases God is a Spiritual disposition in the Renewed Mind by which a person becomes assured that Jesus Christ is truly their Saviour.

 

[beloved57]

Nanja

Amen Brother ! A person's Justification occurred solely based on the Merit of Christ's Obedience of shedding His Blood Rom. 5:9 on their behalf; which in the Mind and Purpose of God, occurred even before the foundation of the world 1 Pet. 1:20; Heb. 7:22.

Exactly !

Hence in time, each one of them particularly, shall by God given Faith Gal. 5:22 in New Birth John 3:3,6, passively be given Faith to believe on Him Phil. 1:29a as evidence of Christ having made them Righteous before God.

Therefore, the only kind of Faith / Believing that pleases God is a Spiritual disposition in the Renewed Mind by which a person becomes assured that Jesus Christ is truly their Saviour.

Exactly !

 

[Nanja]

Nanja



Exactly !



Exactly !

Thank You x 2 !

 

[Nanja]

nanja

Thank God for the blood of Christ!



Praise Him !

Indeed Brother !

Heb. 13:15

By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

 

[Nanja]

Justification beware !

It must be careful on how we understand Justification before God legally by the Obedience/Death of Christ, and Justification by ones work/s whenever we have Justification applied to us by the New Birth, or given heart circumcision, whereby we participate, partake in a conversion experience, whereby we do act Repentance and Faith toward God and The Lord Jesus Christ.

If we however deny Justification before God legally [in the court of heaven] even while we are ungodly Rom 4:5 and enemies Rom 5:10, and unbelievers and do not hold to being Justified legally before God solely on the meritorious blood of Christ, and only what He did for us, and not yet what He does in us, then again we deny the Legal Grace aspect of Justification soley by Christ's Death and trust to what we do after having had Justification applied inwardly by the Holy Spirit. To trust in the Spirit's Work in us, for Justification before God legally, overthrows and comes into competition with the Lord Jesus Christ's Work for Us, and that alone being the basis for ones Justification before God; Thus subtle heresy is what has deceived many who claim Justification before God by Faith alone, not realizing they are still teaching a work based Justification before God, based upon what a man does as a result of a inward work in them.

Last thing, its very important, Once we tend to base Justification before God on a inward or inherent qualification, be it natural or Spiritual, we are guilty of turning to Justification by our works, and deny Justification before God solely upon the Work of Christ, which the Resurrection of Christ does testify unto Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

But once we look inherently even be it our graces from Spiritual New Birth, and say in our heart, for this God Justified me, we deny the Legal Justification of the Cross, and so deny the Cross altogether !

Copy that Brother !

 

[Nanja]

Justification of Life !

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Even so by the Righteousness OF ONE NOT TWO, BUT ONE, the Free Gift CAME UPON, not made available, not offered to, BUT CAME UPON all men to JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE !

Now we know the false antichrist followers tell us that this means all men without exception have Justification of Life, but thats a lie, the verse does not say that and surely cannot begin to mean that, those who believe that are wifully ignorant to what Justification of Life means, and what is meant by it coming upon all for whom it did come upon !

First the words came upon are not in the orginal but are translated from the preposition eis which means:

eis (a preposition) – properly, into (unto) – literally, "motion into which" implying penetration ("unto," "union") to a particular purpose or result.

It denotes a result, that being the result of either, as in the case of the one offence of Adam the result being " judgment came upon all men to condemnation"

Folk that was the result and purpose of God in effect, and it had nothing to do with the all men to whom Judgment and Condemnation came upon doing anything, or not doing anything, their individual acts or non acts are irrelevant !

Now with the same line of reasoning Justification of Life came upon all men as a result of The Righteousness of ONE Jesus Christ, and it likewise had nothing to do with the all men to whom Justifcation came upon, their individual acts or non acts are not relevant to the result !

Now the result of the former , that is what came upon them was Judgment to condemnation :

And the result of the Latter, that is what came upon them was Justification of Life, which means:

acquittal, justifying, justification, a process of absolution.

the act of pronouncing righteous, acquittal

And this acquital, pronouncing Righteous brings with it an added benefit which is Life !

Now, for Rom 5:18 to be taught as meaning all men without exception have come upon them Justification of Life, by the One Act of Righteousness of Jesus Christ is to say all men without exception are before God acquitted of all guilt and pronounced by Him as Righteous !

And we know that is not True because that would lead to the false teaching of Universalism and it would deny the fact that scripture teaches that some men are condemned already Jn 3:18 and are under God's Wrath Jn 3:36 with the promise of not seeing Life ! Which contradicts having had Justification of Life come opon them as those in Rom 5:18 did because of the Righteousness of One !

Exactly Brother ! Simply because the word "all" is used in Rom. 5:18, it does not mean all men without exception have Justification of Life. And as you have pointed out, Scripture is clear that some men are under God's Wrath John 3:18, 36 and shall remain so permanently; for example His vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22, the wicked He made for the day of evil Prov. 16:4.

So Justification of Life is limited to only some men; that is, exclusively all the men that received upon them Justification of Life Rom. 5:18.

2 Pet. 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

 

[beloved57]

Exactly Brother ! Simply because the word "all" is used in Rom. 5:18, it does not mean all men without exception have Justification of Life. And as you have pointed out, Scripture is clear that some men are under God's Wrath John 3:18, 36 and shall remain so permanently; for example His vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22, the wicked He made for the day of evil Prov. 16:4.

So Justification of Life is limited to only some men; that is, exclusively all the men that received upon them Justification of Life Rom. 5:18.

2 Pet. 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Amen Sister !

 

[Nanja]

Justification of Life ! 2

This Justification of Life through the Lord Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Divine Promise to Israel, God's Elect Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

The all men that Justification of Life came upon in Rom 5:18 are the All Men that constitute all the Seed of Israel [Christ] the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

There can be no Justification of Life unto anyone apart from the Divine Promise of Isa 45:25, if it is, its outside of the Lord Jesus Christ and therefore worthless !

Some may argue and say that Isa 45:25 is speaking only of ethnic jews, but its not, its speaking of both ethnic jews and ethnic Gentiles who are the Israel of God. See the Mystery has always been that elect Gentiles are also Israel, an Israel that has nothing to do with ethnicity ! It only had to be that they all belonged to a certain Seed , and not a physical seed !

Exactly Brother, it is Christ's Seed [Spiritual Israel] Chosen In Union with Him of the Father Eph. 1:4-7 [God's Elect] that have remission of sins: The Many for whom their sins He bare as their Head and Surety Heb. 7:22; Is. 53:6, thus resulting in Justification of Life Rom. 5:18, or Justification from their sins which constitutes the Justified Seed of Israel: The Seed of Christ, the seed of Abraham Gal. 3:16, 29: The Many, His Seed, whose sins He bare:

Heb. 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hence, it's the Seed of Abraham, the Seed of Christ: Israel, [whether jew or Gentile] which was Promised Salvation Is. 45:17: Justification of Life !

 

[beloved57]

Exactly Brother, it is Christ's Seed [Spiritual Israel] Chosen In Union with Him of the Father Eph. 1:4-7 [God's Elect] that have remission of sins: The Many for whom their sins He bare as their Head and Surety Heb. 7:22; Is. 53:6, thus resulting in Justification of Life Rom. 5:18, or Justification from their sins which constitutes the Justified Seed of Israel: The Seed of Christ, the seed of Abraham Gal. 3:16, 29: The Many, His Seed, whose sins He bare:

Heb. 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hence, it's the Seed of Abraham, the Seed of Christ: Israel, [whether jew or Gentile] which was Promised Salvation Is. 45:17: Justification of Life !

Praise The LORD!

 

[Nanja]

Praise The LORD!

Psalm 22:23

Ye that fear the LORD, praise him;
all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him;
and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

 

[Nanja]

More on Rom 4:5 Ungodly Justified !

If Justified before Faith, we are [if Christ died for us] Justified before our existence ! Now if scripture gives evidence of God's Elect being Justified before God before their Faith and even while being ungodly, being premised solely on the imputed righteousness of their Surety, then its very plausible, as a consequence of that same Imputed Righteousness that the Elect are Justified in the Sight of God before their actual [in time] existence, lest we conclude that the Surety Righteousness of Christ did not have that type of Merit and Excellence and transcendence in and of itself to Justify, but that it did need ones act of Faith to give it that Virtue !

Amen Brother ! God's Elect were Legally declared Justified from Everlasting by His Decree alone [even while being ungodly], in His entering into Covenant with His Son, as in a court of Law, whereby The Eternal Arrangement between the Father and His Son, and Witnessed by the Spirit: All God's Elect, in the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, were Legally declared Justified in their Surety Christ Jesus even before they come to exist in Time when they are given Faith in New Birth to Believe on Him.

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother ! God's Elect were Legally declared Justified from Everlasting by His Decree alone [even while being ungodly], in His entering into Covenant with His Son, as in a court of Law, whereby The Eternal Arrangement between the Father and His Son, and Witnessed by the Spirit: All God's Elect, in the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, were Legally declared Justified in their Surety Christ Jesus even before they come to exist in Time when they are given Faith in New Birth to Believe on Him.

Amen Sister. You put the butter on the toast!