When does the biblical day begin?

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Ummm no...I didn't say it can be seen either way...you did...and do...and you choose to see it the way man has traditionally seen it

I will choose the way scripture says...it was called Day and then there was evening...notice what came first

Yes you did, you said; "As you said the verse can be taken either way" in your post #498. The way you worded this was revealing that you agree with me.

In fact when put in more context:

Gen1:3-5
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. 2 So the evening and the morning were the first day.

It actually lists darkness existing before the light and the evening before morning, i.e. sunset then sunrise, which actually suggests that the day began at sunset. But these verses are not as clear as the verses that state a day is from evening to evening as I keep telling you. :argue:

 

[jamie]

I am guided by scripture where I read He was not dead on the 16th but alive in time to be first fruits...He was risen...the day before...rose the 15th...is why the tomb was already empty by early morning the 16th...

That's not even close to what scripture says.

 

[chair]

There is a lot of confusion here. The Hebrew Yom certainly means "daytime". Can it also mean "24 hours day"? I'm not so sure about that.

Verses, anyone? Be careful of what you assume.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

There is a lot of confusion here. The Hebrew Yom certainly means "daytime". Can it also mean "24 hours day"? I'm not so sure about that.

Verses, anyone? Be careful of what you assume.

http://studybible.info/strongs/H3117

Yes it can mean 24 hours.

 

[clefty]

Yes you did, you said; "As you said the verse can be taken either way" in your post #498. The way you worded this was revealing that you agree with me.

In fact when put in more context:

Gen1:3-5
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. 2 So the evening and the morning were the first day.

It actually lists darkness existing before the light and the evening before morning, i.e. sunset then sunrise, which actually suggests that the day began at sunset. But these verses are not as clear as the verses that state a day is from evening to evening as I keep telling you. :argue:

That darkness before light was not called night...

You must have light...diminishing...but still light for an evening to occur

 

[clefty]

That's not even close to what scripture says.

Let's have your version then...

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

That darkness before light was not called night...

You must have light...diminishing...but still light for an evening to occur

Dear oh dear please read your Bible:

Genesis 1:1-5
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and DARKNESS was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

Can you see the word DARKNESS in verse 2, this was the DARKNESS that existed before the light which God called night. Clefty please give it a rest. :dizzy:

 

[clefty]

Dear oh dear please read your Bible:

Genesis 1:1-5
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and DARKNESS was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

Can you see the word DARKNESS in verse 2, this was the DARKNESS that existed before the light which God called night. Clefty please give it a rest. :dizzy:

That darkness was interrupted by Light which was named Day and was called good...the light then became evening

Oh and that darkness was named Night AFTER the Light was created...it returned after that light created that day began to diminish into evening and then it was dark again but now it was named NIGHT

as this night ended and it began to be day again through a process of returning light known as morning the day was now numbered...as it was now complete...the coming light was from the next day...

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

That darkness was interrupted by Light which was named Day and was called good...the light then became evening

Oh and that darkness was named Night AFTER the Light was created...it returned after that light created that day began to diminish into evening and then it was dark again but now it was named NIGHT

as this night ended and it began to be day again through a process of returning light known as morning the day was now numbered...as it was now complete...the coming light was from the next day...

Pathetic. You can't twist scripture. It clearly says the darkness that God called night existed before God created light. I can't keep accommodating your rambling as I feel I am become your enabler. Peace.

 

[chair]

This thread got me curious. I looked up "day and night" in the Biblical Encyclopedia. It's in Hebrew.

The term "day" is used for the time of day when there is light - not necessarily just when the sun is up. "night" for when it is dark.

As far as what constitutes and entire '24 hour day', he brought several opinions. The texts aren't quite clear or consistent. (which explains some of the arguments here). The author leans towards the idea of a 24 hour day starting in the morning.

He does point out, however, that holidays start in the evening in the Bible. Why? He speculates that since the holidays are based on the lunar calendar, it makes sense to start them at night, when the moon can be observed.

I never quite understood why this is an important issue for Christians. For us- we just go according to our tradition.

Chair

 

[Right Divider]

Pathetic. You can't twist scripture. It clearly says the darkness that God called night existed before God created light. I can't keep accommodating your rambling as I feel I am become your enabler. Peace.

That still doesn't mean that the day starts at night.

What do you do with verses like this?

Acts 2:15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day. ​

 

[jamie]

Let's have your version then...

OK. Passover week is from the 15th to the 21st of the first month of the Hebrew calendar.

Jesus was executed on the 14th.

"Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away." (John 19:31)

"Now in the place where He was crucified there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb in which no one had yet been laid. So there they laid Jesus, because of the Jews’ Preparation Day, for the tomb was nearby." (John 19:41)

"This man (Joseph) went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock where no one had ever lain before. That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near." (Luke 23:52-54)

KJV has drew on from the Greek epiphosko, which is also used in Matthew 28:1 and means dawn.

"And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment." (Luke 23:55-56)

The Sabbath according to the commandment is a reference to the weekly Sabbath.

"On the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate, saying, 'Sir, we remember while He was still alive how that deceiver said, "After three days I will rise." Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead.’ So the last deception will be worse than the first." (Matthew 27:62-64)

"Pilate said to them, 'You have a guard, go your way make it as secure as you know how.' So they went and made the tomb secure, sealing the stone and setting the guard." (Matthew 27:65-66)

The tomb was sealed and guarded for three days from the 15th.

The 14th was on the fourth day of the week, which we call Wednesday. (http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/SpringPhenom.php)

The 15th was on Thursday, April 6, 30 CE.

The women bought and prepared their spices on Friday, April 7 and the rested on the weekly Sabbath.

Jesus arose on the beginning of the 18th, the first day of the week.

This corresponds to our date of April 9, 30 CE.

 

[clefty]

Pathetic. You can't twist scripture. It clearly says the darkness that God called night existed before God created light. I can't keep accommodating your rambling as I feel I am become your enabler. Peace.

Tap out then...but it aint rambling nor twisting...

The darkness before light is not the same darkness as after it...the darkness before light was called darkness and the other darkness after Light was created was called night which is a darkness which comes after the light grows dim and the evening comes and turns to darkness...oh and this darkness of Night ends with increasing light called a morning...not just light...the darkness before Light had no real time of origin (not clear how long it lasted) and ended with LIGHT...not even an increasing light as in the morning...

Add to that darkness of Night 3 days later stars and a moon...

Yes darkness existed before God created light but it was quite different than the darkness called Night

This darkness was illuminated with Light which diminished...it did not increase as morning light does but there was LIGHT and then there was evening as the light diminished into a darkness which was now called night which was ended by an increasing light called morning--the 1st day is now complete...and numbered...

 

[clefty]

This thread got me curious. I looked up "day and night" in the Biblical Encyclopedia. It's in Hebrew.

The term "day" is used for the time of day when there is light - not necessarily just when the sun is up. "night" for when it is dark.

As far as what constitutes and entire '24 hour day', he brought several opinions. The texts aren't quite clear or consistent. (which explains some of the arguments here). The author leans towards the idea of a 24 hour day starting in the morning.

there is much historical scholarship in agreement with day starting in the morning...it has been said that even to even was brought back from babylon or later...I am sure you can find more info yourself on it but I could link some here if you like...

He does point out, however, that holidays start in the evening in the Bible. Why? He speculates that since the holidays are based on the lunar calendar, it makes sense to start them at night, when the moon can be observed.

only one holiday begins at even...the day of atonement...it (the holiday) starts on the even of the day before (which itself began in the morning)

The passover lamb is killed between the evenings (noon to sundown or sun hit horizon to total darkness) the lamb is then roasted an eaten the same day/evening/night as all thank offerings are and the Wrath passed over on the 14th at midnight...

The passover meal is in the evening but the day to slay the lamb however begins in the morning...

Please note one cannot celebrate a passing over of the Wrath until it actually has done so...this meal is an act of faith as the Wrath passes over at midnight after most have eaten...

I never quite understood why this is an important issue for Christians.

well for the bulk of christendom it sadly doesnt matter...but when pressed one discovers that the Eastern Orthodox eat leavened bread for communion while the roman rite by its law eats unleavened bread arguing the last supper was the passover meal

It matters to me because most christians ascribe their sunday worship as "that is the day He rose from the tomb" when careful reading reveals the only thing that happened that morning of the first day of the week was the tomb was discovered already empty...He was risen the day before...on Sabbath

For us- we just go according to our tradition.

Chair

yes and pharisees were scolded for doing so

 

[intojoy]

Sundown. The Hebrew calendar is based upon the moon not like ours which is based upon the sun, therefore the day begins circa 6pm vs 12am.

The argument for daylight starting the day? It’s dark at 12am kids.


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[Wick Stick]

Who cares what day it was?

You have omitted the weightier matters of the law - judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done.
-Jesus

 

[intojoy]

Who cares what day it was?

You have omitted the weightier matters of the law - judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done.
-Jesus

The Pharisees were not saved and thus lacked the illumination of the Holy Spirit and contrary to the erroneous beliefs held by many Christian teachers today that the Pharisees “knew scriptures inside and out,” they did not, I do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chair]

there is much historical scholarship in agreement with day starting in the morning...it has been said that even to even was brought back from babylon or later...I am sure you can find more info yourself on it but I could link some here if you like...

There is a lot of scholarship in both directions, and a lot of speculation. "it has been said" is a good example

only one holiday begins at even...the day of atonement...it (the holiday) starts on the even of the day before (which itself began in the morning)

The passover lamb is killed between the evenings (noon to sundown or sun hit horizon to total darkness) the lamb is then roasted an eaten the same day/evening/night as all thank offerings are and the Wrath passed over on the 14th at midnight...

The passover meal is in the evening but the day to slay the lamb however begins in the morning...


Please note one cannot celebrate a passing over of the Wrath until it actually has done so...this meal is an act of faith as the Wrath passes over at midnight after most have eaten...

You are confusing a historical event with when the holiday starts. Take a look at Exodus 12:18. It is pretty celar cut:
18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

The day of Atonement is another example Leviticus 23:32

Isaiah 30:29 is interesting as well

...
yes and pharisees were scolded for doing so

You should be more precise about this.
It is reported in the New Testament that they were scolded.
But how do you know that the New Testament itself is reliable? Think about it.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

This thread got me curious. I looked up "day and night" in the Biblical Encyclopedia. It's in Hebrew.

The term "day" is used for the time of day when there is light - not necessarily just when the sun is up. "night" for when it is dark.

As far as what constitutes and entire '24 hour day', he brought several opinions. The texts aren't quite clear or consistent. (which explains some of the arguments here). The author leans towards the idea of a 24 hour day starting in the morning.

He does point out, however, that holidays start in the evening in the Bible. Why? He speculates that since the holidays are based on the lunar calendar, it makes sense to start them at night, when the moon can be observed.

I never quite understood why this is an important issue for Christians. For us- we just go according to our tradition.

Chair

You have a lot more to learn about this subject, I gave you all the information, you just need to read/watch it and you will hopefully understand what it is all about.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

That still doesn't mean that the day starts at night.

What do you do with verses like this?

Acts 2:15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day. ​

(Apologies if you've read this already but you would need to respond to them if you wish to debate).

The Bible provides at least four verse that show a day was from evening to evening but there is not one verse that shows it was from morning to morning:

Numbers 9:5
And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month between the two evenings in the wilderness of Sinai; according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did the sons of Israel.

http://biblehub.com/numbers/9-5.htm

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...OTpdf/num9.pdf


Exodus 12:6
And ye shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month; and the whole congregation of the assembly of Israel shall kill it between the two evenings.

http://biblehub.com/exodus/12-6.htm

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...Tpdf/exo12.pdf


Leviticus 23:32
It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath."

http://biblehub.com/leviticus/23-32.htm

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...Tpdf/lev23.pdf


Nehemiah 13:19
So it was, at the gates of Jerusalem, as it began to be dark before the Sabbath, that I commanded the gates to be shut, and charged that they must not be opened till after the Sabbath. Then I posted some of my servants at the gates, so that no burdens would be brought in on the Sabbath day.

http://biblehub.com/nehemiah/

http://www.scripture4all.org/