When does the biblical day begin?
- Thread starter clefty
- Start date
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Actually I did say lunar months are 29.53 days long but I know, it's a lot of new information to take on board. It took me hours and days of study to understand it all; Because of that extra '0.53' it means lunar months are either 29 or 30 days long, depending on when the sighting of the next new moon was seen from Jerusalem (within a days walk).
This video, which is shortish, clearly shows why the international date line means the current 7 day rolling week system of the Julian/Gregorian calendar is incompatible with the Sabbath being every 7 days on a continuous cycle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sUyZpM5xls
Well, some of us have an easier time with facts than others. Here is what I saw earlier in this thread:
29 days in your perfect month. But the month isn't 29 days long. So this doesn't work. You need months of different lengths- which you now finally understand. And that is why observing the moon is relevant.
Not biblical.
"He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord to be accepted on your behalf, on the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it." (Leviticus 23:11)
Nothing here about the 16th.
So when the ninth goes into its nighttime portion begin your affliction at evening until the evening of the 10th...
This day is to be a sabbath not in sync with the weekly sabbaths
Jews actually calculate when to start their yearly cycle so as to not have the weekly sabbath next to this annual sabbath...(see rules of postponements)
and if the day is already understood as ending at the evening it is merely redundant to state the 9th at evening begin the 10th's affliction...
This is not the pattern for the rest of the days
This is our sabbath as He said this is "your sabbath"...not as He said eslsewhere of the weekly Sabbaths "My Sabbath"
There is a difference
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14th- lamb slain from noon to sundown...roasted...eaten that night...pass over of wrath at midnight...leftovers of sacrifice burnt before morning...
15th- morning begins unleavened bread a sabbath
16th- first fruits on the day after the sabbath...
Jesus was dead on the 16th.
sure here, again:
Gen1:5 "God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day. "
The light was called day...evening follows day yes? And night is then followed by morning and then day is complete...and then finally numbered.
Every day following is this same pattern...an act of creation is done on a day...then the evening follows and then the night...then the morning...then the day is complete and counted...
So there you go...by the end of the first chapter in the Bible you already have at least 5 texts demonstrating that a day is only counted after it is over...like your birthday...or each hour, minute, passing second...so it is with each day...as the night ends the new day with its creative act begins...
The following quotes designate when the lamb is slain roasted eaten and then the Wrath passed over at midnight the leftover of the thank offering eaten on the same day it was killed is then burned before the morning...the next day
And now the day of atonement not DAYS as it is but one day...the 10th
Begin afflicting yourself as the sun goes down on the 9th...all that night (the 9th) until the evening of the 10th
And now we see that normally the gate is closed during the nights anyway...chapter 7:3...but wishing to close the gates prior to that we have a new action...
So there it is...the gates are closed even earlier than the norm for nightly closures...and the Sabbath is preserved...nothing there about the gate closing at the time it became Sabbath...
It became dark BEFORE the Sabbath...sunset to sunset implies as it gets dark it BECOMES the Sabbath...the darkness is the Sabbath...
But again the gates were closed as it began to be dark BEFORE the Sabbath
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Then He wasn't first fruits...
And you're not guided by scripture.
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming." (1 Corinthians 15:22-23)
You are quick to judge...and erroneously...
I am guided by scripture where I read He was not dead on the 16th but alive in time to be first fruits...He was risen...the day before...rose the 15th...is why the tomb was already empty by early morning the 16th...
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
No it was in my post number #472; you've missed that fact twice now and another example why you can't understand these facts is in what you have also just said "Your perfect month" - It is not just me telling you these facts as I have already tried to explain to you. You have also made a typo; You meant "And that is why observing the moon is NOT relevant." (Which is not true anyway).
Chair, I have explained God's Calendar to many people some can understand it and some can't. You are the latter, that's all.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
The pagan Roman Julian/Gregorian calendar that we now use was only created in 45 BC, before this time it did not exist. Therefore, the current 7 day rolling week we currently use only began at that time. Before this date the Romans (Just in the Provence of Rome) were using a calendar with an 8 day week:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar
The Greek Mathematician Sosigenes who Julius Caesar employed to create the new calendar simply removed one of these days (Market day), so the chances of the current 7 day week matching the Jewish week was only a 1 in 7 chance.
The calendar Jesus and the Israelites had been using in Israel for over 1500 years prior to this time was completely different to the Julian calendar/Gregorian calendar. Their months began with the sighting of the new crescent moon on which they rested and had a new moon feast, then there were 6 days of work followed by the first Sabbath. Lunar months are 29.53 days long and therefore Sabbaths fall on day’s 8, 15, 22 and 29 each lunar month. Then the process begins over again with the sighting of the next new moon.
However, God’s Calendar is not the same calendar the Jews of today use. The Jews currently use a revised version of God’s Calendar which uses the Gregorian rolling week system instead of God’s lunar weeks, this was due partly to the Roman Emperor Hadrian after he had put down the Jewish Simon Bar-Kokhba revolt in 135 AD and made an anti-religious decree forbidding Sabbath new moon observances from Jerusalem and also the Roman Emperor Constantine who began to force the Jews in 325 AD to worship on the pagan day called Saturday (named after the Roman god of agriculture; Saturnus).
The Jewish calendar used today was created in 359 AD by Sanhedrin Rabbi Hillel II, this was in response to the Romans banishing the Jews from living in Jerusalem, as the Jews could no longer sight the new moon from there and so Hillel’s calendar uses a repeating 19 year lunar mathematical calculation that approximates the timing of each new moon sighting from Jerusalem. This allowed all the Jews to celebrate their feasts on the same day no matter where they had been scattered all over the Earth.
The fourth commandment; ‘Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy,’ has virtually been forgotten, a command more important than murder for example, which is the sixth commandment. Although we are saved by grace we should still use the ten commandments as our guide as to how to live. We are not dependant on the law but it will prosper us if we adhere to it, equally if we break these laws then we will face the consequences.
I hope this helps you to understand that the Sabbath is not on Saturdays or Sundays (Which are all pagan names that were invented long after God's Calendar of the Bible) but instead can fall on any day of the pagan Julian/Gregorian week. The calendar the Jews used was written about by Moses in the Bible, it is God’s Calendar and you can read more about how it is explained in scripture here:
Robert Nicholas - The Christian's guide to the Bible:
https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/
John D Keyser – founder of Hope of Israel ministries:
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm
Further studies on God’s Lunar Solar Calendar by other Bible scholars:
International Date Line Change: The Sabbath Unchanged by Worlds Last Chance Ministries?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sUyZpM5xls
Robert-Aaron Richmond explains from scripture how God’s Calendar works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJq8tKvnemU
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WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Just because Gen1:5 "God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day. " is repeated 6 times (not 5) does not add weight to you argument as they are all word for word, and that verse can be taken either way round as evening begins at sunset and morning begins at sunrise so it can be understood as a day being from evening to evening.
As said there are no verses saying a day was from morning to morning, yet there are at least 4 verses saying a day is from evening to evening. There is no way round it, scriptures says evening to evening. Accept it.
There really is no need to keep explaining to me that I am not smart enough to follow your thoughts. Let's do this this without the condescending attitude. I read #472. It does not fit with your earlier post, #469, which says that the months are exactly 29 days long.
No. It was not a typo. One must observe the moon for the reason that the months aren't exactly 29 days long. And that is also one of the reasons that your system of 12 29-day months cannot work. What do you do with the sabbath when the month is 30 days long? You'll end up with two 8-day weeks that month. Your system is wrong- and it is not because I don't understand it.
I guess I am one of those who can think for themselves and figure things out.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
It's clear you don't understand it. Best to leave it alone now. Thanks.
It is clear that your system is flawed, but you refuse to face the facts.
Have a nice day, oh wise one.
Yup, I know it was repeated six times the point is that I said you had at least 5 verses in the first chapter that show that after the act of creation in a day it then became evening which then is understood to become night and the night is obviously ended in the morning when the day is finally complete and subsequently counted as such.
Clearly demonstrating at least 5 times that the day begins after the previous one is finally completed and counted in the morning. Morning begins the next day of creation when another act of creation occurs is then called good and then the day becomes evening into night etc...you do see the pattern at least 5 times...1 verse more than the 4 you propose...no wait, as you clarified 2 more times in the 1st chapter alone
sure it does and because its repeated 6 times to set the pattern of the DAYLIGHT ending (not the day) in evening as it came to be evening and then there was morning--the Nth day of creation...
LOL...taken either way?
good you see that the Light was created called DAY and THEN becomes evening as the sun sets...DAY you will notice was named before NIGHT...note too that the first day began without an evening...it was darkness not called night then LIGHT was created and called DAY
So the very first day had no evening but the light created on it was then diminished...a process called evening
asked and answered...and were you paying attention you would have seen the texts I used to support morning begins the next day beyond the Genesis 1 account
As you said the verse can be taken either way and thus I choose the way it is in scripture...not the traditional interpretation
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Good, you see that Gen 1:5 can be taken either way and so therefore can not be used to support whether a day start at sunset or sunrise. It is as scripture says elsewhere: evening to evening.
Ummm no...I didn't say it can be seen either way...you did...and do...and you choose to see it the way man has traditionally seen it
I will choose the way scripture says...it was called Day and then there was evening...notice what came first