When Did the Disciples of Jesus Stop Observing the Old Testament Laws?

[beameup]

When Did the Disciples of Jesus
Stop Observing the Old Testament Laws?

Never. They correctly understood the Law through the Torah.
There were Messianic Synagogues through the 2nd century AD.
The Karaite Sect accept the Tanakh alone as its supreme authority
in Religious Law (Halakha) and do not accept the Midrash or Talmud
"oral law" as authoritative. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaite_Judaism

However, the Sacrificial System based in Jerusalem ended with the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D.

 

[jamie]

Do you believe Paul would live one way and teach another? Christians do misusing his writings to teach there was a change or even end to the Law.

We know God gave the law to the people of Jacob through Moses. Did God send Moses to any Gentile nation to give them the law also?

Do you believe Paul's teachings?

 

[ThreeAngels]

When Did the Disciples of Jesus
Stop Observing the Old Testament Laws?

"While Jesus was on earth, he and his disciples practiced the religion that God gave to the Israelites through Moses. The guidelines they followed were found primarily in the Torah*, which is the first five books of the Old Testament -- the writings of Moses. The Torah contains a variety of information including history, the Ten Commandments, and instructions pertaining to finance, government, family, health, farming, dress, feasts, and worship.

It was at some time after the death of Jesus that Christians stopped observing the Old Testament laws. Exactly when that change occurred is not clear in the Bible. Many people believe the change was made by Jesus himself immediately after the resurrection. However, there is compelling evidence in the book of Acts that the change did not occur until much later.

This article examines all the evidence in the book of Acts that indicates whether or not the apostles and early Christians were still following the Old Testament laws. The context of the story is important. It would be a good idea to read the whole book of Acts to understand the passages covered in this study.

...


Acts 6:11-14 Then they secretly persuaded some men to say, "We have heard Stephen speak words of blasphemy against Moses and against God." So they stirred up the people and the elders and the teachers of the law. They seized Stephen and brought him before the Sanhedrin. They produced false witnesses, who testified, "This fellow never stops speaking against this holy place and against the law. For we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs Moses handed down to us."

The enemies of Stephen would not have needed the false witnesses if Stephen had been disobeying the laws of the Old Testament. In that case, truthful witnesses would have easily condemned him before the Sanhedrin. The fact that they needed false witnesses to accuse Stephen implies that he was actually obedient to the laws of the Torah."

http://www.fogwhistle.com/acts/evidence.html

I find this study a most compelling argument that those assemblies following "the Way" in that first century were nothing like the Church or churches today...

Why would Paul believe live and practice one way and teach another?

Yahushua was clear "Think not that I have come to destroy the Law..."

The Law remains else why would we need Grace? Besides, what better way can we show our gratitude for what was done for us than to obey?

We wish to keep it, not in order to become saved, but because we have faith we are saved...through Him.

Like the law of gravity, we don't keep it, we merely understand it keeps us...

The ceremonial law was made up of symbols pointing to the sacrifice of Jesus. When Jesus died Substance met shadow, and the sacrificial system ended. It is this law that Christ “took . . . out of the way, nailing it to His cross.” Colossians 2:14.

 

[clefty]

The ceremonial law was made up of symbols pointing to the sacrifice of Jesus. When Jesus died Substance met shadow, and the sacrificial system ended. It is this law that Christ “took . . . out of the way, nailing it to His cross.” Colossians 2:14.

The charges against us, our debts, were nailed to the cross - not the Laws.

Col 2:17 Paul writes they ARE shadows, not were.

You catch that? The shadows remain or else Paul would have written they WERE shadows.

But he didn't because they remain.

And still point, as all shadows do to the source of light.

 

[ThreeAngels]

The charges against us, our debts, were nailed to the cross - not the Laws.

Col 2:17 Paul writes they ARE shadows, not were.

You catch that? The shadows remain or else Paul would have written they WERE shadows.

But he didn't because they remain.

And still point, as all shadows do to the source of light.

The full text of Colossians 2:14 reads, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." Ordinance means law. This law was written by Moses at the dictation of the mouth of God, and it is separate from the Decalogue which was written by the finger of God Himself. The ceremonial law served its purpose in pointing to the sacrifice of Christ. When He was crucified He thus nailed it to the cross.

 

[clefty]

We know God gave the law to the people of Jacob through Moses. Did God send Moses to any Gentile nation to give them the law also?

Do you believe Paul's teachings?

Paul clearly teaches that the Law points out sin. So according to you, only the people of Jacob sinned?

And it also clear in the OT that it is one and the same Law for the native and the stranger "for all have sinned".

There was no need for Moses to go to a Gentile nation as any who believed would wish to keep this Law. His house, after all, is a house of prayer for all Nations to worship and worship as He instructed not any which way because it's tradition.

 

[clefty]

The full text of Colossians 2:14 reads, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." Ordinance means law. This law was written by Moses at the dictation of the mouth of God, and it is separate from the Decalogue which was written by the finger of God Himself. The ceremonial law served its purpose in pointing to the sacrifice of Christ. When He was crucified He thus nailed it to the cross.

Then why did the believers hurry to bury Him in order to keep the Passover Sabbath? Why did Paul continue to keep the Sabbath and the feasts and instruct we do the same with the new unleavened bread? And Peter keep kosher?

If there were any changes to His law, He would have been clear about it. Instead, He taught "think NOT" exactly what you are thinking.


This might help clarify...

https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-too...-abolish-gods-law/what-was-wiped-out-by-jesus

 

[jamie]

Paul clearly teaches that the Law points out sin. So according to you, only the people of Jacob sinned?

:doh:

Romans 2:12 "For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law."

 

[clefty]

:doh:

Romans 2:12 "For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law."

Keep reading...

13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous...

Paul then even accounts for those who don't hear the Law but do it anyway...

But iit is Peter who writes of those who hear the holy commandment and then turn away again like a dog returns to its vomit...

Obviously the Law remains...jot and tittle

 

[jamie]

Obviously the Law remains...jot and tittle

What does the law say?

 

[clefty]

What does the law say?

Might I suggest you ask Him?

 

[jamie]

Might I suggest you ask Him?

Yeah, I didn't think you knew.

:carryon:

 

[clefty]

Yeah, I didn't think you knew.

:carryon:

Interesting response to a suggestion to pray for an answer...

Almost mocking...

typical of one in rebellion to obedience...

 

[Ben Masada]

Jesus told his disciples that the Pharisees and teachers of the law sat in Moses' seat. What does that mean? That means they enforced the regulations of the temple.

That means the same as what Jesus meant when he said to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) Why don't you obey him?

What were the regulations? The regulations were the ceremonial works, the purification works. Jesus said they, his disciples, had to do what they, the pharisees and teachers of the law said.

No, the regulations were to listen to "Moses" aka the Law as Jesus reminded them of. (Luke 16:29-31)

The disciples also had to preach the gospel.

Yes, the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach; not the gospel of Paul which was the NT.

Peter was afraid of the Jews so he acted out of line with the gospel. Jesus warned his disciples of what will happen, eventually.

What! Peter was afraid of the Jews! I thought he was a Jew himself. You speak about him as if he was not a Jew.

The old law was still in force because the temple was still standing, and the law was still enforced by those with power; but, it was all going to be obsolete, it was fading.

Not true at all! The Law was in force because heaven and earth had not passed away yet. Don't forget what Jesus said in Mat. 5:17-19! The Law was in force all those years until Solomon built the Temple. The Law was in force during all the 70 years the Jews spent in exile in Babylon. So, what are you talking about?

Jesus also spoke of the temple and its destruction.

Who said so, the Hellenists who wrote the gospels after the destruction of the Temple? Every one could speak of the Temple after its destruction. Amazing!

No one can obey the old law after the temple was destroyed.

How was the Law obeyed for many years before the Temple was built and during those 70 years in Babylon?

Any way a person wants to do what God says, they must come to Him through Jesus, whether Jew or Gentile.

They must first wake Jesus' up from the grave. If you have forgotten, he is still dead. If we want to do what God says we must go for His Word which is not beyond reach. It is not in the heavens that we should say, who among us can go up to the heavens and get It for us and impart It to us that we may observe It? Neither It is beyond the sea that we should say, who among us can cross to the other side of the sea and get it for us and impart It to us that we may observe It? No, God's Word is very close to us, in our own mouth and in our heart.(Deuteronomy 30:11-14)

 

[TweetyBird]

Never. They correctly understood the Law through the Torah.
There were Messianic Synagogues through the 2nd century AD.
The Karaite Sect accept the Tanakh alone as its supreme authority
in Religious Law (Halakha) and do not accept the Midrash or Talmud
"oral law" as authoritative. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaite_Judaism

However, the Sacrificial System based in Jerusalem ended with the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D.

Without the Levitical Priesthood there is no Mosaic Law Covenant. It was all been satisfied in Christ's death, who is the High Priest forever - in the order of Melchizedek, not Aaron/Levite.

 

[TweetyBird]

Neither is the name Jesus...

When you keep using a name for Jesus that is a non-name - what you have to say loses credibility. Jesus is a transliteration of Yeshua. It means the exact same thing. Perhaps you should study out the etymology instead of making remarks that have zero factual support.

 

[TweetyBird]

The charges against us, our debts, were nailed to the cross - not the Laws.

Col 2:17 Paul writes they ARE shadows, not were.

You catch that? The shadows remain or else Paul would have written they WERE shadows.

But he didn't because they remain.

And still point, as all shadows do to the source of light.

WRITTEN Commandments were nailed to the cross. Compare to Eph 2. The Greek words used are

G5498
χειρόγραφον
cheirographon
khi-rog'-raf-on
Neuter of a compound of G5495 and G1125; something hand written (“chirograph”), that is, a manuscript (specifically a legal document or bond (figuratively)): - handwriting.

G1378
δόγμα
dogma
dog'-mah
From the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree, ordinance.


Eph 2
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

The context of Col 2 shows that Paul is referring to the Mosaic Law itself.

Col 2
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It's merely opinion/speculation, however, I believe that Peter and the rest of the Apostles/Disciples continued to preach "The Kingdom Gospel" to the Jews until they died. Whereas, the Apostle Paul preached "The Grace Gospel" to the Gentiles until he died. That's my opinion.

 

[TweetyBird]

The full text of Colossians 2:14 reads, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." Ordinance means law. This law was written by Moses at the dictation of the mouth of God, and it is separate from the Decalogue which was written by the finger of God Himself. The ceremonial law served its purpose in pointing to the sacrifice of Christ. When He was crucified He thus nailed it to the cross.

I think the OT disagrees with you. The entire law of Moses was the 10 and all of the other laws, commandments, and statues given to Israel. It was all written down in the Book of the Law, also called the Covenant, also called the Law of Moses, also called the Law of God, also called the 10 commandments.

 

[TweetyBird]

Then why did the believers hurry to bury Him in order to keep the Passover Sabbath? Why did Paul continue to keep the Sabbath and the feasts and instruct we do the same with the new unleavened bread? And Peter keep kosher?

They did not know that Jesus had fulfilled the Law and were still keeping the Law as they were taught.

If there were any changes to His law, He would have been clear about it. Instead, He taught "think NOT" exactly what you are thinking.

He did change the entire thing in one sentence, the night He was betrayed when He held up a cup of wine and said this is MY NEW COVENANT in MY BLOOD, shed for you.