when did Peter use the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven ?

[glorydaz]

The land of Israel was indeed Jesus' primary mission, but as you posted to Derf in your last post..."Jesus died for the sins of the world."
To ignore your own words only creates division.

Those weren't my own words. It was scripture.

It seems to me that He preached "belief in Him" to pretty much everyone He met.
Romans, Samaritans, and even Greeks.

Peter et all believed Jesus was the Son of God, Christ the Messiah.

Members of the body believe Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead.

I realize it's very complicated for someone who doesn't pay attention to who is being addressed, but you'll need to put on your thinking cap.

Do you mean the "gospel of the grace of God"?
Your sect omits God from it's title...for some reason.
Why?

I have no sect and there is no title.
It's called studying the Bible. duh

Shut up if you can't stop spewing such vile garbage.

 

[glorydaz]

I am surprised you don't call that "the gospel of the shepherds".

I'm surprised you aren't ashamed of your stupidity.

 

[glorydaz]

Is that because my questions thwart your POV?
Or because they have no answers that fortify your POV?

If you don't have satisfactory answers to my questions, perhaps you can point me toward someone who does.

Of course. I'd show you to the door if I thought you follow.

 

[Hoping]

Those weren't my own words. It was scripture.

And you said "no He didn't"

Peter et all believed Jesus was the Son of God, Christ the Messiah.
Members of the body believe Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead.
I realize it's very complicated for someone who doesn't pay attention to who is being addressed, but you'll need to put on your thinking cap.

They all believed the "good news".

I have no sect and there is no title.
It's called studying the Bible. duh

I recommend further study, after you repent of sin.

Shut up if you can't stop spewing such vile garbage.

Again you have no answer to my question?
Why does your group omit the words "of God" in the object of your affection... "Paul's gospel of grace"?

 

[Hoping]

Of course. I'd show you to the door if I thought you follow.

Nobody can answer my questions?
Is that really a group you want to follow?

 

[glorydaz]

And you said "no He didn't"

They all believed the "good news".

I recommend further study, after you repent of sin.

Again you have no answer to my question?
Why does your group omit the words "of God" in the object of your affection... "Paul's gospel of grace"?

Perhaps I should report you for sowing discord.......

Is it the Mid-Acts people you're so afraid of?

 

[glorydaz]

I believe that this subject is very important as it separates Israel from the body of Christ .

I have never seen this subject , on the 5 forums that I am on . I see 3 groups , Pharisees and Sadducees and then the Little Flock and then Paul's message of Grace '

I see that the first use of the keys first use were in Acts 2:38 where Peter called Israel to a national call to repentance .

dan p

What about here? Seems the keys were given at this time.

Matthew 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

The keys to the Kingdom --- saying, "Jesus Christ is the Son of God".

Acts 8:37

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

John 1:49

Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

John 11:27
She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

 

[glorydaz]

For those who claim the twelve preached the resurrection before Jesus went to the cross, they need to ask themselves His followers didn't believe He'd resurrected. They weren't waiting expectantly. They were mourning and weeping.


Mark 16:
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

 

[Hoping]

Perhaps I should report you for sowing discord.......

What would that solve?

Is it the Mid-Acts people you're so afraid of?

I'm not afraid "of" them, I am afraid "for" them.
Their disregard for the words of Jesus Christ truly frightens me.
It is written..."By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." (John 13:35)
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" (Acts 17:30)
"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." (Acts 16:31)
"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men," (Titus 2:11)
In just these four verses, both OT and NT, we see some of the requirements for salvation.
Love one another.
Repentance.
Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Grace of God.

The Mid-Acts folks seem to be so locked into #4 that they have forgotten about #s 1 2 and 3.

 

[Hoping]

For those who claim the twelve preached the resurrection before Jesus went to the cross, they need to ask themselves His followers didn't believe He'd resurrected. They weren't waiting expectantly. They were mourning and weeping.


Mark 16:
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

I don't recall anyone here claiming any of the apostles preached the resurrection until after it happened.
Maybe I just missed it?

 

[Derf]

10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

The Jews were to go to the gentiles after the Kingdom was set up. Turned out it was a Jew that was sent to the gentiles. That being the Apostle Paul, so the scripture is true just not the way you seem to think.

You should look at the whole context. First the Pharisees were demanding to know something, and the Lord is famous for throwing them curve balls. Even so, what He tells the disciples is not clear to me, either. You tell me.

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.



Yep, the Kingdom was promised to the Jews in their recognition of their Messiah.

"The poor of this world, rich in faith". Where does that say "Jew"?

He told the disciples the kingdom was within them. That was before the crucifixion and final rejection of Christ.

But the good news wasn't that a Jew would take the good news to the Gentiles. The good news was that Christ had come into the world--Luke 2:11 (KJV) For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
And who was it for?
Luke 2:10 (KJV) And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
And what was it called?
The phrase "bring good tidings" is translated "preach the gospel" most other places in the New Testament, including several times in Romans, of which the following is a sample.
Romans 15:20 (KJV) Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

Paul acknowledges here that the gospel he was preaching was the same as that being preached by others where Christ was named (among the Jews), just like Luke said, that it was for all people, not just Jews.

You seem to say that Peter held the keys of heaven, but locked most Gentiles out by preaching a gospel that wouldn't do them much (any) good, it's a false gospel.

 

[Derf]

For those who claim the twelve preached the resurrection before Jesus went to the cross, they need to ask themselves His followers didn't believe He'd resurrected. They weren't waiting expectantly. They were mourning and weeping.


Mark 16:
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Maybe there are some that say they preached the resurrection before he went to the cross, but the claim is mainly a false dichotomy, which the MAD view touted here requires to make headway.

 

[glorydaz]

What would that solve?

I'm not afraid "of" them, I am afraid "for" them.
Their disregard for the words of Jesus Christ truly frightens me.

What should frighten you is that you don't understand that Jesus came ONLY for the lost sheep of Israel.

Matthew 10:5

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Matthew 15:24

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

He had nothing to offer the gentiles until after He finished the work of the cross.

Then He gave Paul that message that needed preached to all unbelievers.

In just these four verses, both OT and NT, we see some of the requirements for salvation.
Love one another.
Repentance.
Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Grace of God.

The Mid-Acts folks seem to be so locked into #4 that they have forgotten about #s 1 2 and 3.

Really? Some of the requirements, you say?

You, have not yet heard the gospel that saves. Paul says if his gospel be hid, it's hid from those who are lost.
Start reading Romans. Read it over and over.....clear up to chapter six to start with.
Anyway, you're not alone. So many church goers know only the Kingdom gospel with it's repent and be baptized, and that will not get you saved today.



Under Paul's gospel, one need only believe.
Salvation by grace means it's a GIFT.
There is nothing you can do to earn it in any way.

 

[glorydaz]

I don't recall anyone here claiming any of the apostles preached the resurrection until after it happened.
Maybe I just missed it?

Idolater claimed it over and over.

 

[glorydaz]

"The poor of this world, rich in faith". Where does that say "Jew"?

The Jews were heirs to the Kingdom..... "and heirs of the kingdom" The entire Old Testament prophecies this Kingdom on earth promised to the Jews, and you have to ask such a question?

He told the disciples the kingdom was within them. That was before the crucifixion and final rejection of Christ.

But the good news wasn't that a Jew would take the good news to the Gentiles. The good news was that Christ had come into the world--Luke 2:11 (KJV) For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
And who was it for?
Luke 2:10 (KJV) And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
And what was it called?
The phrase "bring good tidings" is translated "preach the gospel" most other places in the New Testament, including several times in Romans, of which the following is a sample.
Romans 15:20 (KJV) Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

Paul acknowledges here that the gospel he was preaching was the same as that being preached by others where Christ was named (among the Jews), just like Luke said, that it was for all people, not just Jews.

You seem to say that Peter held the keys of heaven, but locked most Gentiles out by preaching a gospel that wouldn't do them much (any) good, it's a false gospel.

No, Peter had the keys to the Kingdom ON EARTH. It was to be heaven on earth where Jesus Christ would sit on the throne of David.

The only verse you give that pertains to us is Paul saying his foundation is laid on the resurrected Christ. Those who build thereon are Appolos, Titus, Timothy

1 Cor. 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

As members of the body, we are all ministers of God's grace, and we'd best make sure we know what gospel is for US.
1 Cor. 3:
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

 

[glorydaz]

Maybe there are some that say they preached the resurrection before he went to the cross, but the claim is mainly a false dichotomy, which the MAD view touted here requires to make headway.

Are you an adult?

 

[Idolater]

Idolater claimed it over and over.

lol I didn't do any such thing Glory!

I claimed over and over that JESUS did! JESUS preached Paul's Gospel of the grace of God before the 'DBR' happened, during His earthly ministry to the circumcision. Not the disciples. He preached the 'DBR' to the disciples. The disciples didn't preach the 'DBR' until after Judas the disciple but not Apostle had died.

 

[Right Divider]

JESUS preached Paul's Gospel of the grace of God before the 'DBR' happened, during His earthly ministry to the circumcision.

Please give us the scripture to support this claim.

 

[Idolater]

Please give us the scripture to support this claim.

Luke 18:31-34 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

 

[Right Divider]

That is NOT the gospel of the grace of God.