ECT What is the true root objection to MAD?

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Originally Posted by PneumaPsucheSoma
Out of curiosity... Are you aware of the role of Jesuit Francisco Ribera in introducing modern Futurism during the Counter-Reformation in 1590, which is the foundation for all Dispensationalism?

What's your take on that?

I know musty hasn't been on the thread to answer; but could one of the MADs tell me about Jesuit Francisco Ribera and his pioneering of modern Futurism in 1590 as a foundation for Dispensationalism, please?

What's the MAD take on that similarity to the origins of Preterism?

Musterion or other MADs...

I've asked this simple cordial question twice to acquire more information of the MAD perspective on the comparative origins of competing Eschatologies; particularly the post-Reformation Jesuit origins of modern Preterism and Futurism.

Will somebody please respond to the question and give historical information? Thanks in advance.

 

[dreadknought]

A sock is a sock... can it quack.

 

[tetelestai]

There is no way you can extend the "alive and remain" statement beyond the 2nd coming, which is what you are attempting to do.

Paul knew the second coming was going to happen soon, and he knew that those dead in Christ would be resurrected.

He was telling his audience that when Christ came, the dead would be resurrected. Then he told them that if any of them were alive when it happened, they would go to be with Christ and the resurrected believers when they died (to meet them in the air).

Remember, these people thought they missed the resurrection. Paul was telling them that when the resurrection happens, they "remain".

Darby's rapture theory falls because of the word "remain". If Darby's theory was correct, Paul would have said after the dead are raised, those of us who are "alive" will meet them in the air.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Paul knew the second coming was going to happen soon, and he knew that those dead in Christ would be resurrected.

He was telling his audience that when Christ came, the dead would be resurrected. Then he told them that if any of them were alive when it happened, they would go to be with Christ and the resurrected believers when they died (to meet them in the air).

Remember, these people thought they missed the resurrection. Paul was telling them that when the resurrection happens, they "remain".

Darby's rapture theory falls because of the word "remain". If Darby's theory was correct, Paul would have said after the dead are raised, those of us who are "alive" will meet them in the air.

Read it again,

Alive and remain UNTO the coming of the LORD.

There is no way you can extend alive and remain beyond the second coming.

You have to imagine it.

 

[dreadknought]

I have to wait for 2000 yrs to understand a truth.... 2 initials.

 

[tetelestai]

Read it again,

Alive and remain UNTO the coming of the LORD.

How can someone be "alive" when the Lord returns, and then "remain" until the Lord comes?

(1 Thess 4:15 GWT) We are telling you what the Lord taught. We who are still alive when the Lord comes will not go [into his kingdom] ahead of those who have already died.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

How can someone be "alive" when the Lord returns, and then "remain" until the Lord comes?

(1 Thess 4:15 GWT) We are telling you what the Lord taught. We who are still alive when the Lord comes will not go [into his kingdom] ahead of those who have already died.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:



Just compare

sleep in Jesus/departed/bring with him (from heaven)
alive and remain (on earth)


Common sense. You have to REALLY want to mess it up to not get it.

 

[dreadknought]

MAD fails, 2000 years later.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

MAD fails, 2000 years later.

This "post" fails" NOW! Student X strikes out again! Changing his name didn't help
his image any!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I have to wait for 2000 yrs to understand a truth.... 2 initials.

I don't think time will help "YOU" to understand truth?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

waste of bandwidth.

This post? Yep!

 

[heir]

I have to wait for 2000 yrs to understand a truth.... 2 initials.

You can be saved by what took place 2000 years ago in your stead!

 

[heir]

MAD fails, 2000 years later.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV is still the power of God unto salvation to very one that believeth 2000 years later! (and for tet: it is no longer to the Jew first, but to all men 1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV, Titus 2:11 KJV).

When were you saved and sealed by trusting the Lord after hearing and believing it?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You can be saved by what took place 2000 years ago in your stead!

True!

 

[heir]

I don't think time will help "YOU" to understand truth?

He opposes himself.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

He opposes himself.

Yeah, he's an, "odd one!"

 

[heir]

Yeah, he's an, "odd one!"

I hope he is saved.

 

[dreadknought]

This "post" fails" NOW! Student X strikes out again! Changing his name didn't help
his image any!

You attack like a dog..... without cause.

 

[musterion]

Musterion or other MADs...

I've asked this simple cordial question twice to acquire more information of the MAD perspective on the comparative origins of competing Eschatologies; particularly the post-Reformation Jesuit origins of modern Preterism and Futurism.

Will somebody please respond to the question and give historical information? Thanks in advance.

Fair question. I can prove futurism from Paul's own words, especially to Titus, one of the last things he wrote - believers are to look with expectation for the return of Christ because He has not returned yet. If He had, we would know it beyond ANY doubt.

Why are you asking this in the present context of preterism?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Of course



Paul said "those of us who are alive and remain". Paul said this years before 70AD, so there was no way Paul knew who would or who would not still be alive, but he knew the event was close, so he knew some of them would still be alive.

Paul also knew that Jesus promised that He would return, and that some of that generation would still be alive when it happened.



Yes, Paul knew that some of them would still be alive when the coming of the Lord took place. Paul didn't know if he would be alive or not, and he didn't know which people he was talking to would still be alive.

Paul also knew that the Great Jewish Revolt had to happen before the coming of the Lord.

This still does not do.

You say that the Lord did come in 70ad. Paul makes it quite plain that The dead rise first and then those who remain at His coming will be caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds.

That leaves zero Christians....so again I ask what then are we?