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A very Pauline post. Nice.
ECT What is the true root objection to MAD?
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
musterion
Well-known member
Your tone here is different from before and I respect that.
Not to nitpick (okay, a little), the bold above. This is precisely the problem we MADs constantly run in to. Most on TOL do not believe works are simply the outworking of being "in Christ." No, they DO put salvific significance on works, either on the front end or (usually, and more subtly) during the life of the believer.
So in the event you are inclined to do so, you cannot begrudge our opposition to such when we detect it, which we work hard to do since so many come here hiding their true beliefs about works for as long as they can. Why shouldn't you? Because in trying to convince others to believe as they do, they seek to draw some from the faith and, in so doing, bring themselves under the anathema of Galatians 1:8-9.
So I ask point blank: Do you begrudge us this?
i'm a she-male "it" - a bastard child perhaps. a wolfette bear of a manchild of the devil his damn self. i am also a very unique eunich. i enjoy how a few try to "peg" everyone and put people under a little file in their head, because they only have limited memory capacity and can't use up valuable brain space by actually loving others and being "adult". too much work to find ANY common ground. just spend hours each day showing a level of maturity that certainly presents in their everyday interactions with "real humans". most folks here are adept at posting both ways. when points have been made and there is still disagreement, i usually stop. i guess now, i just tune in to see the insults
not for me, but my answer is no. i see more wisdom in your posts than some, but for me it's the tactics. i understand it is frustrating when people refuse to see certain truths of the Bible. then once insults start, it's hard to keep quiet.
i came here to see interpretations most people won't talk about "at church" or anywhere, for that matter. i am way behind in memorizing or knowing book, chapter, verse, but i know what it says. i guess i never took the time to focus on memorizing book, chapter, verse scriptures that would prove my points in a debate.
until now, i never had a chance to discuss deeper truths of the Bible with other Christians. i do remember the first time Acts and Paul's epistles became clear. mind blowing, and it sparked my walk. The Spirit may move me to find and point out exactly where someone is wrong and note it. when it comes to huge issues like "works", it shouldn't take long to debate that. without 'school yard" tactics some use.
i take the truths and the good stuff and disregard the rest. in all debates, it comes down to context and interpretation. God can show us new things EVERY time we read the Bible, no matter how well we "know it". :box:
Jedidiah
New member
Just FYI, that's not canonical Calvinism, since according to canonical Calvinism, nobody who's not elected, would ever want to believe.
Those who follow MAD doctrine, also follow Jesus, perhaps more so, as they see in Paul, Jesus is always centre.
To believe it, you have to live it.
Spoken like a true Calvinist! How do you KNOW, you're of the "Elect?"
They may have began different, then as Peter came to know Paul, the difference narrowed
James was looking for outward signs, the fruit. James would say a sinner who lives by sin, is not a true believer.
Jedidiah
New member
Lon
Well-known member
Agreed. Perhaps 'works' needs a different word for what takes place in a believer's life. Perhaps 'fruit' but then 'fruit-inspectors...'
I like AMR's saying that "We are saved by faith alone, but saving faith is then, not alone." I 'think' there is agreement on that point.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Not really for the "what", but the "how" is too often a shock-value kind of silliness.
It seems like intentional and malicious thankless and ungrateful disregard for the imputed righteousness from the finished work of Christ; almost like someone with diplomatic immunity in the US who blatantly violates statutory laws (including murder) just because they can.
I can't imagine Paul posting most of what many MADs post, and he endured severe persecution and dealt with Judaizing and Gnosticism beyond anything MADs are opposing.
I despise any degree or form of works soteriology, probably more than MADs because I understand the ontology of Paul's Gospel. But I infer that most on TOL certainly DO believe works are simply the out-working of being "in Christ", and the difference is emphasis and resulting semantics. The exceptions are usually obvious, and MADs are very prematurely trigger-happy.
I only take issue with the jacked-up eschatology, and the unnecessary and ineffective constant thug mentality (more from some than others) that persuades no one.
Paul's Gospel is clear, especially in Galatians and Romans ch5-8, etc.
Lon
Well-known member
True. Instructions encourage us not to quench/squelch the Holy Spirit's work. 1 Thessalonians 5:19
There is no evidence for that.
The 12 were taught by the risen Christ .
Paul was taught by revelation from Heaven in the Church.
There is no difference, all the saints suffer the same way from godless men.
LA
Right Divider
Body part
LA the Lost cannot tell the difference between anything.
Like the fact that the Bible never ONCE quotes Jesus Christ even saying the word 'GRACE' during His ministry to the circumcision.
Is this grace?
Mat 6:14-15 KJV For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: (15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
as opposed to:Eph 4:31-32 KJV Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: (32) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.