ECT What is the true root objection to MAD?

[john w]

Having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not the same thing as being sealed unto the Day of Redemption.

Learn how to rightly divide the Word of truth.

Romans 8 KJV
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Eph. 1 KJV
13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


Philippians 3 KJV

21who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


satanic Craigie: Does not apply anymore.

 

[john w]

I know Tet follows Jesuit retro-eschatology but is he actually Catholic? Or just may as well be?

He claims that he has infallible teachers, just like the Romans.

 

[john w]

Desperation, when Darby's false teachings can't be defended.

The cutie pie is gettin hammered. Poor Mrs. Craigie....Divorce on the agenda...

 

[john w]

Yes, we know.

You are Darby followers.

Those of us who have faith in Christ Jesus are children of Abraham, and fellow heirs of the promise.

You on the other hand, look to the flesh.

Come on, sweetie!!! Break your record of 12 consecutive "Darby" references/posts!!!!

 

[john w]

Satanic Craigie has used almost every spam cliche, that he learned from his infallible teachers, on this thread.

 

[john w]

Once again, not one person can trace the origins of Preterism to one man.

I have challenged all of you Darby followers to just show one man responsible for Preterism, and to date, not one of you have been able to do so.

It's indisputable that John Nelson Darby invented Dispensationalism.

I challenge you to produce evidence that your teachers, that taught you Preterism, are infallible, as you claim.

Sweetie Craigie:


Not a peep.

 

[tetelestai]

last of the believing Jews must have been gathered

Paul said he stopped preaching to the Jews first because they rejected what he preached:

(Acts 13:46) Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Now, let's look at what Paul said next:

(Acts 13:47) For this is what the Lord has commanded us: "I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth."

In Rom 1:16 Paul tells us that the Gospel of Christ went to the Jew first.

Why would Paul quote a verse from Isaiah as his reason for preaching the Gospel of Christ to the Jews first?

 

[john w]

Paul said he stopped preaching to the Jews first because they rejected what he preached:

(Acts 13:46) Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Now, let's look at what Paul said next:

(Acts 13:47) For this is what the Lord has commanded us: "I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth."

In Rom 1:16 Paul tells us that the Gospel of Christ went to the Jew first.

Why would Paul quote a verse from Isaiah as his reason for preaching the Gospel of Christ to the Jews first?

“It's a young doctrine that was invented by John Nelson Darby in the mid 1800's.”-another lie, Craigie pie is caught in

 

[heir]

Paul said he stopped preaching to the Jews first because they rejected what he preached:

(Acts 13:46) Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Now, let's look at what Paul said next:

(Acts 13:47) For this is what the Lord has commanded us: "I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth."

Why would Paul quote a verse from Isaiah as his reason for preaching the Gospel of Christ to the Jews first?

Paul used Isaiah to validate his preaching to Gentiles (Isaiah 49:6 KJV), and that would be certain Gentiles (blessers as per Genesis 12:3 KJV, Acts 13:26 KJV). Notice that it would not be according to prophecy through Israel’s rise (Isaiah 60:1-3 KJV), but through their fall (Romans 11:11 KJV)! Paul’s talking mystery truth (Romans 11:25 KJV)! And how would those Gentiles (called Greeks in a KJB) be blessed: by Paul’s my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery , which was kept secret since the world began, but now (then) is made manifest,...(Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)! Did you notice Paul did NOT use it in the second sending! He could not have used the OT to validate his going to cursed Gentiles, that other group of Gentiles that were cursed as per Genesis 12:3 KJV! Look at the Jews reaction when Paul revealed he would be sent to far hence Gentiles (Acts 22:21-24 KJV). It was not according to prophecy that those Gentiles had any hope at all of salvation unless God had a mystery! It was unsearchable in the OT (Ephesians 3:1-12 KJV)!

I'm not sure what your fascination with the Jews is all about, but we see them throughout Paul's Acts provoking ministry.

In Rom 1:16 Paul tells us that the Gospel of Christ went to the Jew first.

And that was presently, at that time, which would have been Acts 20! The Jews still had the advantage (Romans 3:1-3 KJV).

 

[heir]

Im really intrigued why STP and heir didn't show the verse that answers my question.

Here's the answer:

(Acts 13:46) Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Hmmmmm.......

STP and heir said Paul stopped preaching to the Jews first when a remnant was formed. Then STP said Paul stopped preaching to the Jews first because he went to prison.

heir said there was no verse.

But as we see above, Paul stopped preaching to the Jew first because the Jews rejected the Gospel of Christ.

This presents a big problem for MAD.

I said there was no verse that said exactly when Paul stopped preaching to the Jew first. The Bible student can certainly conclude that Paul stopped going to the Jew first when there was no longer any left of the remnant which God foreknew would believe (at that present time of Acts 20). I find it really telling that we see no mention of Jews in Paul's prison epistles, but we certainly see them during his first sending! The last mention of them is Acts 28 which kind of blows your Acts 13 theory out of the water! I'd say it's your position that has a "big problem".

And I am in agreement with Bro. STP!

 

[tetelestai]

Paul used Isaiah to validate his preaching to Gentiles (Isaiah 49:6 KJV), and that would be certain Gentiles (blessers as per Genesis 12:3 KJV, Acts 13:26 KJV).

The Gentiles you call "certain Gentiles" were already going to synagogues. It makes no sense that Paul would quote Isaiah 49:6 to preach to Gentiles that had already been preached to by Jews.

Notice that it would not be according to prophecy through Israel’s rise (Isaiah 60:1-3 KJV)

Isaiah chp 60 is about Christ Jesus.

(Isaiah 60:1) Arise, shine, for your light has come,...

Christ Jesus is the light.

but through their fall (Romans 11:11 KJV)!

Romans 11 has nothing to do with Jews. The words "Jew" and "Jews" are nowhere to be found in Romans 11.

The only time Israel fell, was when God divorced them around 700BC.

There was no nation of Israel in the first century.

Israel did not fall in the first century.

Paul’s talking mystery truth (Romans 11:25 KJV)!

Yes, but you Dispensationalists got what Paul was talking all wrong.

The mystery Paul was referring to dealt with the Israelites from the 10 Northern Tribes being scattered amongst the pagan Gentiles. Because the New Covenant was promised to these people, the Gospel of Christ was now being preached amongst the pagan Gentiles. This was how "all of Israel" became saved.

according to the revelation of the mystery , which was kept secret since the world began, but now (then) is made manifest,...

You don't understand the mystery which was kept secret since the world began.

You think Paul was the only person who knew about it.

Read the following:

(Matt 13:35 KJV) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

 

[tetelestai]

I said there was no verse that said exactly when Paul stopped preaching to the Jew first. The Bible student can certainly conclude that Paul stopped going to the Jew first when there was no longer any left of the remnant which God foreknew would believe (at that present time of Acts 20). I find it really telling that we see no mention of Jews in Paul's prison epistles, but we certainly see them during his first sending! The last mention of them is Acts 28 which kind of blows your Acts 13 theory out of the water! I'd say it's your position that has a "big problem".

The Apostle Paul said he stopped preaching to the Jew first because the Jews had rejected what he was preaching.

There is nothing in Paul's epistles about a "Jewish remnant" in the first century.

And I am in agreement with Bro. STP!

Which answer by STP?

His first answer that says Paul stopped preaching to the Jew first when a Jewish remnant was formed, or his second answer where he says Paul stopped preaching to the Jew first because he went to prison?

 

[tetelestai]

The last mention of them is Acts 28 which kind of blows your Acts 13 theory out of the water!

I'm not an Acts 13 Dispensationalist.

Are you now taking an Acts 28 position?

E.W. Bullinger gets all the credit for the Acts 28 position, but it was Darby who first took the Acts 28 position:

" We find the lingering traces of habitual evil in the saints, for they objected to Peter his having gone to the Gentiles; yet this was the final sin of the Jews. Such was the patience of God, that they were not, historically, then shut up, till Paul's intercourse with them at Rome (Acts 28)" - John Nelson Darby, Footnote to Notes on the Revelation, The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby, Vol. 2, p. 176 [1839]

 

[tetelestai]

However, E.W. Bullinger is credited with inventing "kingdom doctrine" vs. "body doctrine". E.W. Bullinger called it "kingdom truth" and "church truth".

"In the late 1800s a Vicar of the Church of England, Dr. Ethelbert W. Bullinger, (1837 - 1913), along with J. N. Darby, C. H. Mackintosh, and others, came to realize the distinctive roll the apostle Paul played in revealing to God's people what Bullinger termed 'church truth,' as opposed to 'kingdom truth.' " - SOURCE

 

[heir]

The Gentiles you call "certain Gentiles" were already going to synagogues. It makes no sense that Paul would quote Isaiah 49:6 to preach to Gentiles that had already been preached to by Jews.

The Jews didn't know what Paul knew until Paul revealed it to them, but Paul’s first order of business in the synagogue of the Jews, was to preach the gospel of God (Acts 17:3 KJV) which is concerning the WHO of Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead with power (Romans 1:1-4 KJV). He would then stablish them with the gospel of Christ! And yes, the Gentiles (called Greeks in a KJB) were in the synagogues. They were the “them that fear God” (Acts 13:26 KJV). They were seeking a blessing as per Genesis 12:3 KJV. Little did they know, it would be the forgiveness of sins (Act 13:38-39 KJV). It is the preaching of the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, 1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)!

Romans 11 has nothing to do with Jews. The words "Jew" and "Jews" are nowhere to be found in Romans 11.

You need to compare spiritual things with spiritual! Romans was written at the time of Acts 20 and Paul is most definitely testifying to them and also to the Greeks (Acts 20:21 KJV).

There was no nation of Israel in the first century.

You’re trippin’ . Israel had fallen, but they were not yet cast away for a reason and for a season (Romans 11:12 KJV) Romans 9:1-5 KJV, Romans 11:1-2 KJV, Acts 28:19-20 KJV.

Israel did not fall in the first century.

Romans 11:11 KJV

The mystery Paul was referring to dealt with the Israelites from the 10 Northern Tribes being scattered amongst the pagan Gentiles. Because the New Covenant was promised to these people, the Gospel of Christ was now being preached amongst the pagan Gentiles.

The NC has nothing to do with the Body of Christ (Hebrews 8:8 KJV) and the gospel of Christ was not preached to alien Gentiles: it was preached to the Jew first and also to the Greek (Romans 1:16 KJV). Get your facts straight, preterist.

This was how "all of Israel" became saved.

It doesn’t say they “became saved”: it says they “shall be”! It is yet future (Romans 11:26-27 KJV)! What’s a preterist to do with a future tense? Change it, that’s what! Caught again!

You don't understand the mystery which was kept secret since the world began.

I most certainly do: it’s the hidden wisdom of God that God ordained before the world unto our glory (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). It’s Paul’s my gospel (Romans 16:25-26 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)! The gospel you say I wouldn’t know if it bit me on the nose. Paul declared it (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), I received it, am saved by it, stand by it and preach it; which is more than I can say for you. What has happened to you?

You think Paul was the only person who knew about it.

Read the following:

(Matt 13:35 KJV) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Paul's gospel was not after man. He neither received it of man, neither was he taught, but by revelation of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12 KJV)!

The twelve didn't know it until Paul went up by revelation (meaning he was told to go) and communicated it unto them (Galatians 2:1-9 KJV).

 

[heir]

I'm not an Acts 13 Dispensationalist.

You keep bringing up Acts 13 as if that's the last Paul preached to Jews, but it's simply not true!

Are you now taking an Acts 28 position?

I am not an Acts 28er. The Acts 28er believes there are two bodies of Christ. :nono:

I believe there is ONE body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV Ephesians 3:6 KJV, Ephesians 4:4 KJV) and that it began with the apostle Paul (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV).

E.W. Bullinger gets all the credit for the Acts 28 position, but it was Darby who first took the Acts 28 position:

" We find the lingering traces of habitual evil in the saints, for they objected to Peter his having gone to the Gentiles; yet this was the final sin of the Jews. Such was the patience of God, that they were not, historically, then shut up, till Paul's intercourse with them at Rome (Acts 28)" - John Nelson Darby, Footnote to Notes on the Revelation, The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby, Vol. 2, p. 176 [1839]

:banana: So "MADs" are not "Darby followers" after all as we believe the Body began MID ACTS! :banana:

thanks, preterist

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

thanks, preterist

Preterelestai?

 

[Jedidiah]

However, E.W. Bullinger is credited with inventing "kingdom doctrine" vs. "body doctrine". E.W. Bullinger called it "kingdom truth" and "church truth".

"In the late 1800s a Vicar of the Church of England, Dr. Ethelbert W. Bullinger, (1837 - 1913), along with J. N. Darby, C. H. Mackintosh, and others, came to realize the distinctive roll the apostle Paul played in revealing to God's people what Bullinger termed 'church truth,' as opposed to 'kingdom truth.' " - SOURCE

I think Pope Urban III actually invented it, the Knights Templar assumed it, and possibly, it was passed on to or absorbed by the Freemasons. :idunno:
This guy Bullinger may have been the first to make it explicit however.

 

[heir]

Preterelestai?

:chuckle:

 

[tetelestai]

You keep bringing up Acts 13 as if that's the last Paul preached to Jews, but it's simply not true!

Acts 13 tells us that Paul quit going to the Jew first because the Jews rejected what they were preaching.

You are correct though, Paul kept preaching to the Jew first right after he said he was no longer going to preach to the Jew first. In fact, in the very next chapter, Paul preached to the Jew first:

(Acts 14:1) At Iconium Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue. There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Greeks believed.

I am not an Acts 28er. The Acts 28er believes there are two bodies of Christ. :nono:

Huh?

Acts 28er's believe there were two churches at the same time "kingdom" and "body" churches.

Isn't that what you believe?

I believe there is ONE body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV Ephesians 3:6 KJV, Ephesians 4:4 KJV) and that it began with the apostle Paul (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV).

For Paul to be the first person in the BOC, it means Paul was baptized with water by Ananias (whom you refer to as a "kingdom" believer) in order to be the alleged first person in the BOC.

IOW, you have someone from the "old" church baptizing someone into a brand "new" church with a water ceremony that you claim has no part in the "new" church.

:banana: So "MADs" are not "Darby followers" after all as we believe the Body began MID ACTS! :banana:

thanks, preterist

When the church began is just one chapter of Dispensationalism. There are Acts 2, Acts 9, Acts 13, and Acts 28 Dispensationalists, when it comes to when the church began.

When Paul stopped preaching to the Jews first (what you call the fall of Israel) is another chapter of Dispensationalism. To date, no Dispensationalist has been able to reconcile the two events (when the church began, when "Israel fell")